CSA (Austin's) regulations 2011

[darkhorse]

Comment:

 

Tell me what they are doing wrong ("everything" is not an answer), in your opinion.

 

Then, we can possibly discuss rather than trashing the hard-working Austins.

 

From what I have heard these rules and regulations were discussed and implemented unilaterally!

[Spinnekop]

Personally I like the 2011 rules. Ability and not age. LOVE IT!!

Now the boys PAYING for an early start will bitch and moan because they will actually have to STICK it to be seeded in the front.

 

Few thoughts I gathered and being the first day back at work that is quite and accomplishment!!

 

Also, I have heard from one of the ladies Pro teams that they are worried about their sponsorships because ladies racing will no longer exist with the new regulations. Ladies will be racing against men for cat 2 placings and there will be no age categories for the ladies over age of 30.

 

Untrue. Top 6 ladies gets podium.

This system was done in 2008 I think aka SuperSeries organised by Bruce. VERY well attended and it worked! More coverage for the ladies because the cameras were there for them and the Vets all in once bunch!!

 

 

It will no doubt make the ladies race harder but it will not be a ladies against ladies race. It will be one who hangs onto a guys wheel the longest who beats the other ladies.

 

What does not kill you will make you stronger!!!

Don't underestimate the gents......in the SuperSeries it was clearly proven that the gents did not interfere with the ladies racing when push came to shove. They did not chase or help.

 

The only advantage I see from this is that the girls that are PROS!!!! will get stronger and maybe will be able to compete internationally!!!

 

Also, the vet men 50+ what will happen to their racing. These guys are also very competitive and now they going to have to race against younger riders and not rider of their own age.

 

So what??? If his seeding (Which is based on the ELITE winning time) is the same seeding as that 'younger rider' then they have the same ability.....RACE ON!!!!

 

Come on....this is not rocket science......train hard and earn you racing spot......if not, go and ride with the fun riders and stop stressing about seeding?!!!!

 

Ha ha Ha..... the question actually is what has CSA done for the the majority, which the bulk of the fees???

 

Dude.....dude...you have NO idea have you?.......last time I checked the CSA's financials, the majority of the funding came from the LOTTO!! NOT the fun riders like us!! Surprise surprise.....

 

And then SECONDLY, if you ACTIVELY take part in you CLUB, you get to vote who is in power and ultimately deciding what gets spent on who and what......

If you don't, you are just sitting on the wire moaning.......

[Spinnekop]

From what I have heard these rules and regulations were discussed and implemented unilaterally!

 

By people YOUR club, province voted into power.....sort of like government....you don't vote, you can't complain?

[mallo]

Barry done a road show last year, some clubs simply never responded to his request and others stated they received late notice.

 

Spinnekop from the rules:

 

Category 2 Race

???? Overall Top 10 positions (it ???????????????????????????? matter whether male or female)

???? Women Top 6 (if applicable)

???? Remaining prize-­‐funding up to organisers discretion

Category 3 Race

???? Overall Top 10 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

???? Women Top 6 (if applicable)

???? Remaining prize-­‐funding up to organisers discretion

[Posty]

While I am in favour of changes that improve roadracing I am afraid this initiative could hamper development.

 

I believe most people like to compare themselves against their peers(age,sex). (The entries at Vets Worlds in St Johann prove this).

 

Also, men and women's racing is different. Women have a w/kg disadvantage in a sprint situation, (see the results top elite ladies vs 40+) - the sprinter ladies finish well down - are they even contesting or just staying out of trouble? In launching attacks on the flat they will be easily closed down by the men, bringing other women, who are not prepared to make the racing, back. I would like to know if the ladies peloton has been polled on their views...

 

If international results are anything to go by, we do not seem to have a problem with the ladies standards, but rather the comparative standard of the men's racing in SA. Perhaps CSA should look at modelling the Elite racing more on the international approach - (laps, crits, longer distances) and perhaps working with organisers to restructure fun rides (before they are approved).

 

I believe if the system does change there should be a similar categorising (but rather separate to the men) of the women - Perhaps cat 1 and 2 to start due to lack of numbers. While road cycling is a team sport what if a world class cyclist/national champion is racing alone (eg Cherise last year),is that person to be excluded because they are not part of the "club"?

 

The other issue that I don't quite get is that the intention is to also improve the riders' bunch riding skills by having them race in larger bunches. In reality in most licenced races there are not often more than 200 riders across all of the licenced cats - so will there be grouping of categories? How will this affect racing for cat placings in smaller centres/less prominent races?

 

What, after all, are the issues, and how do the changes address them? I don't recall seeing the categories revisions issue being addressed in the CSA survey.

[Part time Biker]

Personally I like the 2011 rules. Ability and not age. LOVE IT!!

Now the boys PAYING for an early start will bitch and moan because they will actually have to STICK it to be seeded in the front.

 

Few thoughts I gathered and being the first day back at work that is quite and accomplishment!!

 

 

 

Untrue. Top 6 ladies gets podium.

This system was done in 2008 I think aka SuperSeries organised by Bruce. VERY well attended and it worked! More coverage for the ladies because the cameras were there for them and the Vets all in once bunch!!

 

 

 

 

What does not kill you will make you stronger!!!

Don't underestimate the gents......in the SuperSeries it was clearly proven that the gents did not interfere with the ladies racing when push came to shove. They did not chase or help.

 

The only advantage I see from this is that the girls that are PROS!!!! will get stronger and maybe will be able to compete internationally!!!

 

 

 

So what??? If his seeding (Which is based on the ELITE winning time) is the same seeding as that 'younger rider' then they have the same ability.....RACE ON!!!!

 

Come on....this is not rocket science......train hard and earn you racing spot......if not, go and ride with the fun riders and stop stressing about seeding?!!!!

 

 

 

Dude.....dude...you have NO idea have you?.......last time I checked the CSA's financials, the majority of the funding came from the LOTTO!! NOT the fun riders like us!! Surprise surprise.....

 

And then SECONDLY, if you ACTIVELY take part in you CLUB, you get to vote who is in power and ultimately deciding what gets spent on who and what......

If you don't, you are just sitting on the wire moaning.......

 

 

Thanks Spinnekop

 

I also initially was apposed to the system but since I am not currently racing for a team and belong to a small club the new system does not change much for me. I think under the new rules racing is going to be exciting and enjoyable. Can't wait

[kevind]

While I am in favour of changes that improve roadracing I am afraid this initiative could hamper development.

 

I believe most people like to compare themselves against their peers(age,sex). (The entries at Vets Worlds in St Johann prove this).

 

Also, men and women's racing is different. Women have a w/kg disadvantage in a sprint situation, (see the results top elite ladies vs 40+) - the sprinter ladies finish well down - are they even contesting or just staying out of trouble? In launching attacks on the flat they will be easily closed down by the men, bringing other women, who are not prepared to make the racing, back. I would like to know if the ladies peloton has been polled on their views...

 

If international results are anything to go by, we do not seem to have a problem with the ladies standards, but rather the comparative standard of the men's racing in SA. Perhaps CSA should look at modelling the Elite racing more on the international approach - (laps, crits, longer distances) and perhaps working with organisers to restructure fun rides (before they are approved).

 

I believe if the system does change there should be a similar categorising (but rather separate to the men) of the women - Perhaps cat 1 and 2 to start due to lack of numbers. While road cycling is a team sport what if a world class cyclist/national champion is racing alone (eg Cherise last year),is that person to be excluded because they are not part of the "club"?

 

The other issue that I don't quite get is that the intention is to also improve the riders' bunch riding skills by having them race in larger bunches. In reality in most licenced races there are not often more than 200 riders across all of the licenced cats - so will there be grouping of categories? How will this affect racing for cat placings in smaller centres/less prominent races?

 

What, after all, are the issues, and how do the changes address them? I don't recall seeing the categories revisions issue being addressed in the CSA survey.

 

I totally agree with what you are saying here!

 

As the darkhorse also stated, riders need to race in Europe to improve. Look at Ashley Moolman. Her ability sky rocketed when she relocated to Europe.

[Frosty]

Cat 2-4 will be "sized" according to numbers (minimum and maximum).

If there are only 300 licensed Vets, then there will only be 2 categories (Cat2 and Cat3)

For 600 licensed Vets, there would be 200 in each category

 

One of the objectives of the lesser number of categories is to use less officials and less admin for the organisers.

[Frosty]

Barry done a road show last year, some clubs simply never responded to his request and others stated they received late notice.

Yes, and CGC notified clubs at 12:00 that a meeting would be taking place at 16:00 on the same day, even though they (CGC) were notified of the meeting 2 weeks prior.

We've since arranged, and had, a meeting with Barry to clearly understand the rules from an event organiser's perspective.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Frosty

[Overlord]

Just have to love the statement that somebody can go play with the funriders. Is that truly what people think of funriders? That they play and that is that? It is is a stupid comment to make and degrading. Anyone of you so called racers have been there. Start at the back and work to get a seeding so that you can race in these cat 1 2 3 groups. Or did you play to get in? I personally have no problems with the new rules and welcome a bit of change in the sport but certain riders need to remember to respect the other riders(fun riders) as they form a very integral part of the sport. There are more than enough prima donnas in the world and we surely do not need more in the beautiful sport.

 

RESPECT LOYALTY COMMITMENT in that order will make you a feared and respected sportsman/woman.

[The_Break]

Just have to love the statement that somebody can go play with the funriders. Is that truly what people think of funriders? That they play and that is that? It is is a stupid comment to make and degrading. Anyone of you so called racers have been there. Start at the back and work to get a seeding so that you can race in these cat 1 2 3 groups. Or did you play to get in? I personally have no problems with the new rules and welcome a bit of change in the sport but certain riders need to remember to respect the other riders(fun riders) as they form a very integral part of the sport. There are more than enough prima donnas in the world and we surely do not need more in the beautiful sport.

 

RESPECT LOYALTY COMMITMENT in that order will make you a feared and respected sportsman/woman.

 

Why do fun riders then do fun rides? I love playing with fun riders. Especially those with nice cleavage. Just kiddign hey!

[scotty]

Seems like the suggestion i submitted that riders be classed in weight categories has been ignored

 

Looks like I'll have to stick to trying to stay with 75kg or less skinnies on hills

[andydude]

Something else I thought about on a lonely training ride - there seems to be a bit of a contradiction... they want to move to ability based cycling categories, but then still have age-based results in the categories? E.g. in Cat 1 there will also be results for Juniors and Subvets. I thought they want to move away from age?

 

I think there is too big a jump between Cat 1 and Cat 2, because they effectively say up to Subvets in Cat 1 and even though you can race in Cat 2, if you finish top 5 you have to move up to Cat 1.

[The_Break]

Something else I thought about on a lonely training ride - there seems to be a bit of a contradiction... they want to move to ability based cycling categories, but then still have age-based results in the categories? E.g. in Cat 1 there will also be results for Juniors and Subvets. I thought they want to move away from age?

 

I think there is too big a jump between Cat 1 and Cat 2, because they effectively say up to Subvets in Cat 1 and even though you can race in Cat 2, if you finish top 5 you have to move up to Cat 1.

 

That is the point of the system. Stronger riders move up and weaker riders move down. It would be unfair for a CAT 2 rider who should actually be a CAT 1 rider to walk away with prize money every week. In any case, you will see, it is not going to be as easy as it seems to jump categories and the level will definitely be raised as now everyone wil be racing, not just sitting wheel waiting to sprint after all the elites have done all the work at the front.

[mallo]

One Phrase everybody seems to miss with category racing is "TEAM EFFORT". In order for rider to maintain his/her seeding the whole team will have to work as a solid unit as the other members in the squad will be knocking on the manager's door trying to get into the team. Medscheme proved this point last year in the last few races where they simply put in huge efforts to ride away as a team.

 

Now is the time for our riders to show their worth and step up to the plate. I am sure the likes of Andrew Moolman David G(2) Jock Doug etc will want to prove their mettle against the cream of the crop in SA.

 

Imagine what hectic racing will take place in Category 2 if above riders decide that is where they will race this year. (I am sure some guys will be working half days trying to get miles in to maintain their seeding amongst these riders)

 

Simply plea to all those with negative feelings "let's give this a race or two before we continue shooting it down"

[AndreZA]

That is the point of the system. Stronger riders move up and weaker riders move down. It would be unfair for a CAT 2 rider who should actually be a CAT 1 rider to walk away with prize money every week.

 

And how will you control this? You read every week here on the Hub how licensed vet riders did not feel good the week and just dropped down a few groups and messed up the racing there.