Do you think parents love their kids if...

[Azi]

Is it illegal?

 

Heard on a radio station while they were discussing this: if you don't have a car seat installed, its not illegal to have the kids jump around, but if you do have one installed then it is illegal to have the kids not strapped in, and you can be fined.

[The_Break]

Heard on a radio station while they were discussing this: if you don't have a car seat installed, its not illegal to have the kids jump around, but if you do have one installed then it is illegal to have the kids not strapped in, and you can be fined.

 

Not true at all. It is law that all passengers must make use of the available restraints in the vehicle. I.e. if your rear seats have seat belts they must be used.

[Azi]

Not true at all. It is law that all passengers must make use of the available restraints in the vehicle. I.e. if your rear seats have seat belts they must be used.

You are right, I stand corrected. I could very well have heard that before the law you refer to was introduced - was some time back. I am sure that 'normal' seatbelts would prove a choking hazard to young kids in an accident - law should be changed to provide for child seats.

[The_Break]

You are right, I stand corrected. I could very well have heard that before the law you refer to was introduced - was some time back. I am sure that 'normal' seatbelts would prove a choking hazard to young kids in an accident - law should be changed to provide for child seats.

 

Agreed, there is a lot we need to change when it comes to road safety. But, before that happens, there are a lot of things we can do ourselves that will save lives, of our own and others.

 

Forest Gumps mother was a wise woman - Stupid is as stupid does.

[Capricorn]

TB: that's only true for individuals sized for the available restraints, because u too small, those restraints by definition useless. What I'm not sure about is whether the law in ZA states that should the existing restraints be inadequate for whatever reason, that one must endeavour to provide appropiate restraint, as does the law in the EU which forces parents to buy age-appropiate car seats for each and every kid, and boy are they damn strict.

I lived there for a bit, and i saw what happens when kids aint strapped in (one of my co-workers fell foul of the law going thru a toll gate). Them coppers are ruthless in applying that law, and rightly so. I cant remember the exact amount, but i do recall that the car seat would've been cheaper

Edited January 8, 2011 by Capricorn

[The_Break]

TB: that's only true for individuals sized for the available restraints, because u too small, those restraints by definition useless. What I'm not sure about is whether the law in ZA states that should the existing restraints be inadequate for whatever reason, that one must endeavour to provide appropiate restraint, as does the law in the EU which forces parents to buy age-appropiate car seats for each and every kid, and boy are they damn strict.

I lived there for a bit, and i saw what happens when kids aint strapped in (one of my co-workers fell foul of the law going thru a toll gate). Them coppers are ruthless in applying that law, and rightly so. I cant remember the exact amount, but i do recall that the car seat would've been cheaper

 

A seat belt can also be effective when tucked under a youngsters arm to prevent neck injuries.

 

I think the main point here is that people don't care to make use of what they have. I mean image you get home from work and you find your wife sitting in the lounge crying waiting to tell you something terrible happened. Or that it was you sitting there waiting to tell her. It takes a few seconds to strap them in.

 

I also know that there are parents who use the excuse that there kids refuse to wear the seatbelts. That is ridiculous, since when did parents start to become the children in the house and lose control over their children. My kid would get a freakin hiding if he would not listen. Discipline is not easy, but it means you love your child.

[gummibear]

What is the Granny doing standing on the back seat with the kid driving????

 

Little girl (6 years old if memory serves me well) was standing behind granny when car was hit head on by another car.Little girl went into back of grannies head at 60+ km/h.

Little girl had serious facial injuries and granny had to have teeth cut out of her head.

I didn't even have kids at the time but swore never to let my kids ride without a seatbelt on.

[The_Break]

Little girl (6 years old if memory serves me well) was standing behind granny when car was hit head on by another car.Little girl went into back of grannies head at 60+ km/h.

Little girl had serious facial injuries and granny had to have teeth cut out of her head.

I didn't even have kids at the time but swore never to let my kids ride without a seatbelt on.

 

Makes sense. I can run at about 23-27km/h when sprinting. On a bike I can probably get up to 60km/h in a sprint.

 

I do not think I would want to run into a wall at either of those speeds as I am going to injure myself rather seriously. Just walking into my sliding door at night one evening was sore engouh (dough!!!) And certainly not into a dashboard or windscreen or an airbag.

[Capricorn]

A seat belt can also be effective when tucked under a youngsters arm to prevent neck injuries.

 

 

I would actually like you to substantiate that claim as I totally disagree with you. Even in adults, who do NOT make use of the height adjustment for the seat belt fixture on the B-pillar, there is an increased risk of severe injury during an accident BECAUSE of the seat belt. Case in point, our departmental secretary bled out in her seat following an accident because the seat belt cut into her neck severing the jugular. If only she had adjusted the B-pillar mount downward as the facility was there.

 

Existing seat belts are NOT designed with kids in mind, especially taking into consideration their anatomical robustness under sudden deceleration. note: i use kids in it's most general sense possible, but reality will dictate that beyond a certain age or size, existing seat belts can be effective in mitigating accidents.

 

This from wikipedia:

As with adult drivers and passengers, the advent of seat belts was accompanied by calls for their use by child occupants, including legislation requiring such use. Generally children using adult seat belts suffer significantly lower injury risk when compared to non-buckled children.

 

The UK extended compulsory seatbelt wearing to child passengers under the age of 14 in 1989. It was observed that this measure was accompanied by a 10% increase in fatalities and a 12% increase in injuries among the target population.[41] In crashes, small children who wear adult seatbelts can suffer "seat-belt syndrome" injuries including severed intestines, ruptured diaphragms and spinal damage. There is also research suggesting that children in inappropriate restraints are at significantly increased risk of head injury,[42] one of the authors of this research has been quoted as claiming that "The early graduation of kids into adult lap and shoulder belts is a leading cause of child-occupant injuries and deaths."[43] As a result of such findings, many jurisdictions now advocate or require child passengers to use specially designed child restraints. Such systems include separate child-sized seats with their own restraints and booster cushions for children using adult restraints. In some jurisdictions children below a certain size are forbidden to travel in front car seats."[44]

Edited January 8, 2011 by Capricorn

[The_Break]

Makes sense. I can run at about 23-27km/h when sprinting. On a bike I can probably get up to 60km/h in a sprint.

 

I do not think I would want to run into a wall at either of those speeds as I am going to injure myself rather seriously. Just walking into my sliding door at night one evening was sore engouh (dough!!!) And certainly not into a dashboard or windscreen or an airbag.

 

I think they should show some real pictures of victims of accidents like these on TV and in the paper every now and again. Like the Papa Wag Vir Jou Campaign. Maybe that will save some of our countries children.

[The_Break]

I would actually like you to substantiate that claim as I totally disagree with you. Even in adults, who do NOT make use of the height adjustment for the seat belt fixture on the B-pillar, there is an increased risk of severe injury during an accident BECAUSE of the seat belt. Case in point, our departmental secretary bled out in her seat following an accident because the seat belt cut into her neck severing the jugular. If only she had adjusted the B-pillar mount downward as the facility was there.

 

Existing seat belts are NOT designed with kids in mind, especially taking into consideration their anatomical robustness under sudden deceleration. note: i use kids in it's most general sense possible, but reality will dictate that beyond a certain age or size, existing seat belts can be effective in mitigating accidents.

 

This from wikipedia:

 

I was just making the point that if you did not have a child seat (for whatever reason) that the argument of injury of the neck by seatbelt is not really a good one as the belt can be tucked under the arm.

 

I am glad you posted that last bit as that is the point I think. If they are young enough put them in a car chair. If they are old or big enough put a seatbelt on them.

Edited January 8, 2011 by The_Break

[rudi-h]

The problem with this thread is, that it tries to "measue" love and caring through things that are measurable or visible, like the use of seatbelts / carseats.

 

However, a good loving parent does millions of things for their kids that aren't noticable / measurable. Things like: do you get home early to play with your kid; do you spend your saturdays in front of supersport, or do you take your boy on a hike or teach him how to make a kettie and a peeshooter; do you talk / play cards after dinner, or do you hit the 8 o clock movie till everybody doses off to bed; Do you show interest in you kid's sport or other interests, or do you leave it up to the teachers?

 

Imo, it's the other things that make a good loving parent. I've been lucky not to be in an accident, even after 500000km of driving. So the seatbelt issue is small in relation to the real problems of parenting!

 

PS I'd also buy a car seat and use it 95+% of the time when I have kids one day

[chris_w_65]

I am sure they do love their kids, maybe they are just stupid or maybe for some reason think it will never happen to them. Or maybe they think they are just driving to the shops so everything will be ok.

[gummibear]

I am sure they do love their kids, maybe they are just stupid or maybe for some reason think it will never happen to them.

.

 

+1 on that.

[Starry nights]

Cant imagine someone not loving their kids but also cant imagine someone being so stupid to not buckle them up - confusing!?

 

Something I have noticed is no (maybe some but have not seen them yet) cops use seatbelts - good example for all!

[Starry nights]

.

 

+1 on that.

 

Forgot - many people think God is protecting them and their kids, or when it is their time to go there is nothing they can do