FanieFiets Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 so' date=' my training hours a week is +- 15. its not that much. [/quote'] Damn thats a lot of hours. I average 5.30 hours per week over the last 4 months. I did the WCXpress in 2:27. Does this mean if I want to also do a 2:10 I am going to have to do more than double the amount of weekly hours do gain 15 minutes ? Or can I just train smarter and maybe do like 8-9 hours. In terms of time on the bike it seems a waste to do almost 3 times as many hours for only 15minutes better time. What do you guys think? Nee, moenie oor die ure worry nie. So lank die kwaliteit van jou training goed is, sal jy fine wees. my avr. uur per week 5 weke voor die argus was 6 uur en ek het onder 3 uur uit F gemanage. Maar as ek oefen dan ek intervals en bulte en stuff wat mens sterk maak. EK glo dat baie mense oefen te veel en gee hulle liggame nie genoeg tyd om te herstel nie. my meeste ure in 'n week OOIT is 10 uur. Ek dink ek gaan dit hierdie week beat! Staan nou al op 5h12 en moet nog vanmiddag gaan ry plus race die naweek.
AuctionLamb Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 ok...i have a tricky question about this..... i do a hard long ride(a race then a bit more)....next day my legs are putty....but go for a hard 1.5 hr ride.....it feels you work hard but your HR stays low because your legs are putty.....do you actually gett stronger/fitter or is it a waste because normally at that HR it is not that hard ride afterall!?
BikeMax Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 so' date=' my training hours a week is +- 15. its not that much. [/quote'] Damn thats a lot of hours. I average 5.30 hours per week over the last 4 months. I did the WCXpress in 2:27. Does this mean if I want to also do a 2:10 I am going to have to do more than double the amount of weekly hours do gain 15 minutes ? Or can I just train smarter and maybe do like 8-9 hours. In terms of time on the bike it seems a waste to do almost 3 times as many hours for only 15minutes better time. What do you guys think? On balance I think you are correct - quality is the key and more is not necessarily better. Pops is doing Epic though so he needs endurance too. For road racing at a decent level - 8-9 hours is great as long as every session counts.
bruce Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 ok...i have a tricky question about this..... i do a hard long ride(a race then a bit more)....next day my legs are putty....but go for a hard 1.5 hr ride.....it feels you work hard but your HR stays low because your legs are putty.....do you actually gett stronger/fitter or is it a waste because normally at that HR it is not that hard ride afterall!? You are not going for a hard ride the next day, it just feels hard because you have not recovered. Muscles adapt to intensity (power), so if you aren't able to reach the required power, you should be resting until you can. So, you are doing poor quailty training when you should be resting, meaning that when you should be training you are too tired - hard sessions are done too easy, and easy/recovery sessions are done too hard - everything just becomes mediocre and you don't get the gains that you should.
BikeMax Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 ok...i have a tricky question about this..... i do a hard long ride(a race then a bit more)....next day my legs are putty....but go for a hard 1.5 hr ride.....it feels you work hard but your HR stays low because your legs are putty.....do you actually gett stronger/fitter or is it a waste because normally at that HR it is not that hard ride afterall!? Tough call AL - I know you are a sceptic but this is where some sort of direct measure is needed. You may well be too fatigued to do anything meaningful the day after the ride you described - but if you weren't you might not know it by looking at HR (which may be depressed due to fatigue) I guess you could look at speed and try to establsih if the ride was likely to be at a decent power output or pace. It is normal to find that effort to power ratio gets higher as you fatigue (in other words it feels harder for the same power) and this is ok as long as the quality is there, but if the quality is poor then you would be better of resting and saving the ride for the next day.BikeMax2007-11-01 01:58:22
AuctionLamb Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 ok...i have a tricky question about this..... i do a hard long ride(a race then a bit more)....next day my legs are putty....but go for a hard 1.5 hr ride.....it feels you work hard but your HR stays low because your legs are putty.....do you actually gett stronger/fitter or is it a waste because normally at that HR it is not that hard ride afterall!? Tough call AL - I know you are a sceptic but this is where some sort of direct measure is needed. You may well be too fatigued to do anything meaningful the day after the ride you described - but if you weren't you might not know it by looking at HR (which may be depressed due to fatigue)I guess you could look at speed and try to establsih if the ride was likely to be at a decent power output or pace. It is normal to find that effort to power ratio gets higher as you fatigue (in other words it feels harder for the same power) and this is ok as long as the quality is there' date=' but if the quality is poor then you would be better of resting and saving the ride for the next day.[/quote'] this is also related to bruce reply....this is more a question than me saying i am correct on this.....i believe that it is sometimes good to "overdo" it so that you can get more endurance strength/power? your legs get "use" to some hard workload....but this is only done SOMETIMES....
Brakkies Sport Fotos Posted November 1, 2007 Author Posted November 1, 2007 thanks bruce and bikemax. valuaeble info you guys shared here with us. much appreciated. (tjops, lyk my jy moet met colonel chat as backup vir sy partner, dis hoe jy voel, by dag 6 register jou hart nie meer en ry jy teen 100bpm, lyf kannie meer korporaal. Soos hulle in die army gese het: "Kyk net voor jou, die army sal agter jou kyk"
AuctionLamb Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 thanks bruce and bikemax. valuaeble info you guys shared here with us. much appreciated. (tjops' date=' lyk my jy moet met colonel chat as backup vir sy partner, dis hoe jy voel, by dag 6 register jou hart nie meer en ry jy teen 100bpm, lyf kannie meer korporaal. Soos hulle in die army gese het: "Kyk net voor jou, die army sal agter jou kyk"[/quote'] ken daai gesegde!!!
bruce Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 ok...i have a tricky question about this..... i do a hard long ride(a race then a bit more)....next day my legs are putty....but go for a hard 1.5 hr ride.....it feels you work hard but your HR stays low because your legs are putty.....do you actually gett stronger/fitter or is it a waste because normally at that HR it is not that hard ride afterall!? Tough call AL - I know you are a sceptic but this is where some sort of direct measure is needed. You may well be too fatigued to do anything meaningful the day after the ride you described - but if you weren't you might not know it by looking at HR (which may be depressed due to fatigue)I guess you could look at speed and try to establsih if the ride was likely to be at a decent power output or pace. It is normal to find that effort to power ratio gets higher as you fatigue (in other words it feels harder for the same power) and this is ok as long as the quality is there' date=' but if the quality is poor then you would be better of resting and saving the ride for the next day.[/quote'] this is also related to bruce reply....this is more a question than me saying i am correct on this.....i believe that it is sometimes good to "overdo" it so that you can get more endurance strength/power? your legs get "use" to some hard workload....but this is only done SOMETIMES.... No problem with that - in fact it has a name: "Block Training" where you do three or four days of very high training load - then take two or three days to recover. What is very important to understand though, is that your body does not improve while you are training, it improves while you are recovering. If your training load was higher than what you are previously used to, then you will recover to become fitter than you previously were. The golden word is RECOVERY - the bigger the training dose, the more the recovery required!
Brakkies Sport Fotos Posted November 1, 2007 Author Posted November 1, 2007 I got this "advance" training program from Andrew at Cyclelab. Cycle Lab Training Plan Heart Rate Exertion Scale 50-59% EASY WORK - RECOVERY 60-74% AEROBIC - MEDIUM TO HARD 75-89% SUB MAX - QUITE HARD 90-100% MAX TRAINING - VERY HARD PERIODIZATION WEEK PHASE TIME Week 1 Base 10.5 Week 2 Base 11 Week 3 Base 11 Week 4 Recover 9 Week 5 Build 11 Week 6 Build 12 Week 7 Build 13 Week 8 Recover 9 Week 9 Build 12 Week 10 Build 13 Week 11 Build 14 Week 12 Recover 9 WEEK DAY TIME (hrs) Ave. HR TRAINING Week 1 Monday 20min 65% Run 2km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.This can be a run/walk workout. Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr 65% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Wednesday 1hr30min 60% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 1hr30min 70% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Friday 20min 65% Run 2km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.This can be a run/walk workout. Preferably on grass. Saturday 2hrs15min 75% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 3hrs 70% Mountain bike?ride off road. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 2 Monday 20min 65% Run 2.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.This can be a run/walk workout. Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr 65% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Wednesday 1hr45min 60% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 1hr45min 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 20min 65% Run 2.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.This can be a run/walk workout. Preferably on grass. Saturday 2hrs30min 75% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 3hrs20min 70% Mountain bike?ride off road. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 3 Monday 25min 65% Run 3km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.This can be a run/walk workout. Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr 70% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Wednesday 1hr45min 65% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 1hr45min 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 25min 65% Run 3km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.This can be a run/walk workout. Preferably on grass. Saturday 2hrs30min 80% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 3hrs20min 70% Mountain bike?ride off road or a Mountain Bike Race. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 4 Monday 20min 60% Run 2km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.This can be a run/walk workout. Preferably on grass. Tuesday 0 0 Rest Day. Remember Rest is as important as Training! Wednesday 1hr45min 60% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness.Take it easy! Thursday 1hr45min 60% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Take it easy! Friday 0 0 Rest Day. Remember Rest is as important as Training! Saturday 2hrs10min 65% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Take it easy! Sunday 3hrs 60% Mountain bike?ride off road.Take it easy! Week 5 Monday 20min 65% Run 2.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr 65% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Wednesday 1hr45min 65% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 1hr45min 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 20min 65% Run 2.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Saturday 2hrs30min 75% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 3hrs30min 70% Mountain bike?ride off road or a Mountain Bike Race. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 6 Monday 25min 65% Run 3km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr 70% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Wednesday 1hr45min 65% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 1hr50min 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 25min 65% Run 3km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Saturday 3hrs 75% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 3hrs45min 70% Mountain bike?ride off road or a Mountain Bike Race. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 7 Monday 30min 70% Run 3.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Wednesday 1hr45min 65% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 2hrs 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 30min 70% Run 3.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Saturday 3hrs15min 80% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 4hrs 75% Mountain bike?ride off road or a Mountain Bike Race. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 8 Monday 20min 60% Run 2.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 0 0 Rest Day. Remember Rest is as important as Training! Wednesday 1hr40min 60% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness.Take it easy! Thursday 1hr45min 60% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Take it easy! Friday 0 0 Rest Day. Remember Rest is as important as Training! Saturday 2hrs15min 65% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Take it easy! Sunday 3hrs 60% Mountain bike?ride off road.Take it easy! Week 9 Monday 25min 65% Run 3km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr 70% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Wednesday 1hr40min 65% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 1hr45min 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 25min 65% Run 3km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Saturday 3hrs 75% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 3hrs45min 70% Mountain bike?ride off road or a Mountain Bike Race. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 10 Monday 30min 70% Run 3.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr15min 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Wednesday 1hr30min 65% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 2hrs 75% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 30min 70% Run 3.5km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Saturday 3hrs15min 80% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 4hrs 75% Mountain bike?ride off road or a Mountain Bike Race. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 11 Monday 30min 75% Run 4km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 1hr15min 80% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Wednesday 2hrs 70% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness. Thursday 2hrs 80% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time Friday 30min 75% Run 4km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Saturday 3hrs30min 85% Mountain bike?ride on or off road, Or a Road race, enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, and have a good time. Sunday 4hrs15min 75% Mountain bike?ride off road or a Mountain Bike Race. Enjoy your Mountain bike and build up your time in the saddle off road. Week 12 Monday 30min 60% Run 3km-Slowly, more of a shuffle.Preferably on grass. Tuesday 0 0 Rest Day. Remember Rest is as important as Training! Wednesday 1hr45min 60% Mountain bike skills off road. This workout is all about your skills not working on fitness.Take it easy! Thursday 1hr45min 60% Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Take it easy! Friday 0 0 Rest Day. Remember Rest is as important as Training! Saturday 2hrs 655 Road Ride. Enjoy being on your bike. Stay comfortable, control your breathing and have a good time. Take it easy! Sunday 3hrs 60% Mountain bike?ride off road.Take it easy!
CaptainDura Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 This advanced program does have a lot of hours in it, but it seems all the training is between 60 and 80% effort/HR This goes against the previous posts where it was said to do less with more intensity ie > 80% effort/HR what gives ? Can one really expect to perform well at a race when the racepace is going to be well above 80% with a training program like the above ?
Marius Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 it does add up. What he is doing is having his hard and long rides over the weekend, he then uses the week to recover by doing lower intensity word / active recovery.
Brakkies Sport Fotos Posted November 1, 2007 Author Posted November 1, 2007 captain, Epic race pace for us is at 60 - 75 % , if you go one day into "red", you are not going to see day 8. After day 3, you will not get your heartrate above 80%, if you do, it will be for a couple of minutes. Your body is getting weeker by the day and cannot push your heart rate to the dizzy hights, Only a couple of "PRO's" go into the red on day 1, after that, all of them make sure they dont ride in red. On the Epic Information nights, they show a heart rate graph (think it was kevin evans), he only went in red on day one, but about 10% of his total riding time of the stage.
Brakkies Sport Fotos Posted November 1, 2007 Author Posted November 1, 2007 Dira, check out how you will go "down" in the zonne's the longer the race goes. It was my 2007 epic stuff
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