the all mountain bike - myth or reality?

[MoreTrails]

You should be shot for putting flat bars on a AM bike....

 

No seriously, thats the beauty of these types of bikes - build 'em up (super) light and race 'em or slightly more hardcore for your inner DH rocket afterburner

[perp]

werner that bike is so porno and she is not even dirty.

[DR ◣◢]

When I started out in DH we all used hardtails with some beefy forks up front. Marz Z1's, RST Mozo's etc.

 

I remember winning the entry class in DH at Pretoria nationals in (correct me if I'm wrong) 1997 with that setup.

 

I think it was a Wheeler 5700 19.5" frame with some XT parts and a set of Magura brakes. The same bike was used for trials, xc, jumping etc etc because being at school meant cash was very tight and one bike had to do it all.

 

These days I still take on a bit of DH here and there using a softail Fuji Diamond. I might not be as fast as when I had my proper DH bike with 6" White Brothers forks and an 8" travel frame, but it still puts a massive smile on my face!

[LazyTrailRider]

When I started out in DH we all used hardtails with some beefy forks up front. Marz Z1's, RST Mozo's etc.

 

I remember winning the entry class in DH at Pretoria nationals in (correct me if I'm wrong) 1997 with that setup.

 

I think it was a Wheeler 5700 19.5" frame with some XT parts and a set of Magura brakes. The same bike was used for trials, xc, jumping etc etc because being at school meant cash was very tight and one bike had to do it all.

 

These days I still take on a bit of DH here and there using a softail Fuji Diamond. I might not be as fast as when I had my proper DH bike with 6" White Brothers forks and an 8" travel frame, but it still puts a massive smile on my face!

 

Yep, I also used to do the same. Raced nationals in 1997 with a silver Wheeler 7900ZX (super-light XC rig) but with an RST 461DH fork (4") up front. It wasn't beefy, but it felt pretty plush back then

 

The full-sus guys used to get pretty annoyed when beaten by a guy on a HT, haha.

[nigelhicks]

so, not to hijack Stev0's topic. Wes got me thinking that I am not to old for downhill

Talking to bike shops, they recommend spending 20k on proper dh bike. that is a bit much.. so to investigate other options:

the "all mountain bike" is a myth. any jump, or big rock or similar requires a very low seat height, otherwise the seat kicks you over the bars.

you need a high seat for XC for proper leg extension and comfort. so just taking those two factors into account it is not possible. right?

so is the only option then a soft-tail with a seat drop device?

 

If you want an ALL-IN-ONE bike to do:

1) The odd DH race (knowing you going to get smoked by guys on proper Dh bikes - but you are only there to have fun)

2) XC (you will battle a bit on uphills but love the downs)

3) Trail riding

 

.... you need to get something in the region of a 6 inch - geometry-adjustable trail bike:

 

1) GT Force

2) Morewood (not sure of the name but Pat's testing a new prototype with a linkage activated single-pivot - WICKED)

3) Mongoose Kyber

4) Trek Remedy

5) Kona Coilair

 

You can then start playing with the bikes geometry by adding a cane creek angleset headset which allows you to alter the headangle of the bike ... this in conjunction with a Joplin adjustable seatpost will be the best bet for a "Do everything" Bike ...

 

Or just look for a 2nd hand DH bike. .. there are quite a few in the 10k range with some older ones in the 6k to 8k range too ....

[nigelhicks]

I organised my Chicks Dad (who is 50) my old Downhill bike from 2000 ... it is a Wheeler 6000DZX with 6 inches of travel with a marzocchi 6 inch front fork.

 

He is currently half way through his first ever DH season and is loving it as the bikes geometry is set up better for DH than his 6 inch travel GT Force ...

 

And we bought the bike back from teh guy i sold it to for 2 grand ... and i spent another 2k on it ... so it cost 4k in total ...

 

- Moral of the story - if you are just looking to have fun in DH and improve your skills look for a 2nd hand bike cheap. OR you can go about altering your all mountain bike but that becomes a pain having to adjust geometries everytime you want to ride.

[nigelhicks]

Hey Redline,

 

Thanks for kicking me in the balls

 

There has to be a bike/hybrid that I can throw around and not snap in two while doing it. There is no way im paying 20k for a showroom bike, just to pull it out and be offered 12 on the street. Riding a bike should not be like owning a volvo...(anybody want to buy mine)

 

I would just like to find something not too expensive and yet suitable to my needs. How big of a jump would a XC bike handle with a 100kg bloke on top

 

Try find a Mongoose Kyber .... that would suit you down to the ground and they werent that expensive 16k retail so you should be able to find one sort of cheap 2nd hand

[Guest Omega Man]

I've got a Wheeler Hostyle in the garage waiting for some loving. It was marketed as a Wheeler but is actually a Turner Burner. My Mate Karl rode at the 1998 world cup in Stellenbosch. He qualified for the dual but sadly broke his wrist trying to qualify for the DH. I had it resprayed 2 years ago in pearl white. it has GT stickers on it. (Don't ask) I'll never forget the day I saw it for the first time. I'd never seen a bike with rear suspension before and this thing looked like it was from a different planet. I was instantly in love.

 

I need to get a rear brake mount machined (yes it's that old) and build it up from bits I have in the garage. It has a teeeeni little Noleen coil shock that is getting replaced by an air shock that is from another turner burner that is now sadly departed. The only thing I don't have is a decent wheelset but my plan is to share the wheelset on my GT Chucker with the Turner/Wheeler/GT. After all. I can only ride one bike at a time.

 

A little history

 

I bought the frame from Karl for 2k (It was black with red logo's) and mated it with bits from my then cheapie Mongoose XC bike. During this time it got the white spray job. I then sold it to my mate Doug for R2500.00 who essentially used it for the Argus and nothing else. A few months ago I convinced him to let me have it back (for free) to build up with a better parts spec than was on it. I've been diligently keeping all my leftovers and upgraded bits in a box in the garage. I promised that he could ride the bike any time he wanted. Still waiting for the phone call.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Omega Man

[kosmonooit]

Is All Mountain the same as Downhill?

[MoreTrails]

.... you need to get something in the region of a 6 inch - geometry-adjustable trail bike:

 

1) GT Force

2) Morewood (not sure of the name but Pat's testing a new prototype with a linkage activated single-pivot - WICKED)

3) Mongoose Kyber

4) Trek Remedy

5) Kona Coilair

 

Morewood Sukuma is the new one with a Split Pivot by good old Dave Weagle.... 150mm travel bike that has taken over from the Shova (very sad to see that bike go.... )

 

Also add to that list a Santa Cruz Nomad or Butcher, or and Intense Uzzi. Also a Commencal Meta 6... and I am sure the list can go on and on and on and on..........................

[MoreTrails]

Is All Mountain the same as Downhill?

 

No not really. Its considered big riding, but you have to ride up to the top first before you come down. I would say an All Mountain rig can handle pretty much most of what a DH course can throw at it except the gnarliest stuff and biggest drops.

 

Or am I wrong?

[nigelhicks]

Is All Mountain the same as Downhill?

 

No definately not .... Downhill is defined as a bike designed specifically to be raced down a hill

 

And All Mtn bike generally has 6 to 7 inches of travel compared to a DH bikes 8 ... the head angle of the AM bike is generally slightly steeper to help with some climbing ... the BB height will also be a bit higher and the bike will come with a 2 chain ring + bash guard configuration on the cranks rather than a single ring with a chain device as per DH specs.

[nigelhicks]

Morewood Sukuma is the new one with a Split Pivot by good old Dave Weagle.... 150mm travel bike that has taken over from the Shova (very sad to see that bike go.... )

 

 

Ya this is the single pivot version where the headangle and bb height are adjustable via an eccentric pivot design .. (meanign you turn the pivot with an allenkey - as if stirring a cup of tea - and this turns the eccentric pivot or bush or whatever and adjusts the geometry ...

 

Pats also working on a prototype trail bike that uses similar linkage to the makulu ... that things mad!!!

[Capricorn]

Fabien barel said it best: DH is the F1 of mountain biking.

 

The point is, the bike tech for DH is getting to the point where u can no longer make simple associations like F1 is also a car. It's just not quite the same thing other than the fact it's human powered, two wheeled transport.

 

I'd say the correct category would include the following, in descending order of travel and burliness (but where the general geometry stays the same):

Freeride

All Mountain

Trail bike

XC

 

BUT, nigel pointed out the important bit: adjustability to accomodate a broad spectrum of rider types. I think that's key to the All Mountain category these days, what with adjustable shock positions, headset angles, and chainstay lengths.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Capricorn

[nigelhicks]

I'd say the correct category would include the following, in descending order of travel and burliness (but where the general geometry stays the same):

Freeride

All Mountain

Trail bike

XC

 

Hey Cap - to throw a spanner in the works ... where does DH and slopestyle then fit in ... hahahha

 

so then you have the following

 

DH - Race = 8 inches of travel

Freeride - split into -

a)BIG Mountain = 8 inch bikes (Modified DH bikes)

b)Slopestyle = 6 inch bikes (specifically designed for this sport - see the GT Distortion)

All Mountain - big travel XC bike = 7 inches of travel generally with a 2 ring and bash guard set up on the cranks (for riding Bike Parks in Europe and using

lifts to get to the top)

Trail - Medium Travel XC bike = 5 to 6 inches of travel - can do most normal XC races but is more fun when pointed downhill

XC - Short travel XC bike or Hardtail - 4 inches of travel - light weight XC race bike.

[Guest Omega Man]

Fabien barel said it best: DH is the F1 of mountain biking.

 

The point is, the bike tech for DH is getting to the point where u can no longer make simple associations like F1 is also a car. It's just not quite the same thing other than the fact it's human powered, two wheeled transport.

 

 

I reckon DH has more in common with motocross than roadie and xc (which is rapidly becoming roadie on dirt roads but that is another rant)