What w/kg or FTP needed for 3 HR Argus?

[Starvin' Marvin]

Uuh how do you work out w/kg?

[Starvin' Marvin]

PPO FTP? My TLA's aren't that good yet!!!

[Joker]

Off the topic: I'm amazed at how many non-professional riders are willing to splurge on crazy-expensive wattage measurement equipment, when this equipment will probably only ever contribute to a 2% difference in performance.

 

I'm just saying. If it's your thing, then by all means go right ahead!

Hi Martin, and I am one of them But I enjoy the wattage both on my indoor trainer and on the bike - almost had my wife blowing a gasket but hey I don't smoke drink or sleep around - so it is toys...

 

I have improved my FTP from 220 to around 300 in the year that I am training with power

Johan

[Starvin' Marvin]

FTP again? Whats it mean>?

[Supersix EVO]

FTP again? Whats it mean>?

 

Functional Threshold Power

 

The FTP is the maximal running pace an individual can sustain for an effort of approximately 45 - 60 min in duration.

[Starvin' Marvin]

Sweet thanks so much. Now I can follow abit better.

[dutchMan]

Hi, i am a bit green when it comes to the power thing, but i do train alot, quite alot.

 

My numbers are apparently quite good, considering i only started with power training a few weeks back, but i am getting my ass handed to me overseas, I am not sure what the other guys numbers are here, but is is quite disconcerting when i see guys with pot bellies or old timers (grey hair 50+) and woman still sticking in the bunch when i am shelled off in the first 2 laps.

 

Not sure what to do about it, dunno if the type of training i am doing is suitable for the type of racing, criteriums.

 

What i have definately learn't so far is that in the criteriums technique is almost just as important than the numbers you are getting...

[Tiny K]

In 2007 we had good weather and I did 2:54 from E - 4th in the group - no boyes drive. Add 3-4 minutes for Boyes - means you are cutting it fine even with good weather. There will be strong guys at the front of the bunch who will go for a sub 3, but not as many of them as stronger bunches.. so it's a bit tougher from E than those groups. The bunch will split at Smitswinkel - be near the front.

 

Thanks for the tip LL - I too am leaving from the E bunch - want to get as close to 3hr mark as possible. Did a 3:09 99'er with a bit still left in the tank but had to work the front of the B bunch as no-one was wiling to work, just wheel suck.

[Willehond]

PPO or FTP? PPO I know of a good few SV that are pushing 6.5w/kg. So before you talk **** yourself lets get on the same page.

We're talking FTP, Woofie clouded the issue by mentioning PPO, but the initial question clearly states FTP. So if you want to get on the same page; We're talking FTP.

[Joker]

Sweet thanks so much. Now I can follow abit better.

Coggan's Power Training Levels

Threshold Power = 300 watts

Purpose % of FTP Watts

1 Active Recovery <55% 165w Taking your bike for a walk!

2 Endurance >75% 225w All day pace.

3 Tempo >90% 270w Chain Gang pace.

4 Lactate Threshold >105% 315w At or around 25m TT pace

5 VO2max >120% 360w 3-8 minute interval pace

6 Anaerobic 121%+ 360w+ Flamme Rouge ****s intervals

7 Neuromuscular >1000w? Jump Intervals

[Harry Potter]

Thanks for the tip LL - I too am leaving from the E bunch - want to get as close to 3hr mark as possible. Did a 3:09 99'er with a bit still left in the tank but had to work the front of the B bunch as no-one was wiling to work, just wheel suck.

Well A bunch last year winning time of 3:01 so It will be very hard to do a sub 3 in Open seeded

[Minion]

Well A bunch last year winning time of 3:01 so It will be very hard to do a sub 3 in Open seeded

There was the small matter of a gale during last year's race.

 

The last time the weather was good, in 2008, A did a 2:39.

[azikara]

Not sure what to do about it, dunno if the type of training i am doing is suitable for the type of racing, criteriums.

 

I can help here. I have had this experience. I race criteriums in the US as my staple diet during summer. Cyclocross in Autumn.

 

Tips for Criteriums:

 

1. You must do VO2Max intervals to train your body for the surges that occur at each corner. The group slows down and then accelerates out of the corner. Say there are 30 laps and a 4 corner course, that's 120 surges of anywhere from 4 w/kg to 10+. My last crit had 32 surges of 4-6 w/kg; 40 of 6-8 w/kg and 53 from 8-10 w/kg (that's 560-700W) and 6 that were 10 w/kg and above. That's 121 micro intervals ranging from 280 - +1000W. And that is the bottom feeder league! You may be strong on the local group ride but you will be instantly dropped in your first crit without adequately preparing your body for this abuse. Just about everyone gets dropped the first time...unless they have some coaching

 

2. Follows #1: You MUST stay at the front. It's safer and the front guys roll through the corners faster. The guys in the middle and back slow down more and then need more power to accelerate. It follows that you need to do EVERYTHING to stay at the front. And I mean EVERYTHING. Even if you get dropped. There's no point in finishing midpack if you are just riding midpack. It's better to hit the front and finish midpack than just sit in.

 

3. High FTP (60 min TT power) helps because you dip less into the fuel tank for each surge.

 

4. Ride smart - stay at the front but NOT on the front. You will die a quick death if this is the case. If you don't then you are in the wrong group.

 

5. Hold your line around corners. It's dangerous to make skittish moves. The higher level groups are much smoother.

 

6. My rule (your results may vary) is that on the last lap, sprint when you want to. Don't wait for the sprint to happen. Unless you follow a terrific wheel and pull around at the last minute you will get caught out. I prefer to disrupt the group and sprint early. I haven't won like this (probably because I'm not a pure sprinter) but I always place higher when I do and it totally messes up the short burn, high power guys. They hate it.

 

7. Get to the line early and line up in front. There are no rules. Barge your way if you have to. So what. It's war.

 

8. Stay low, stay aero. You want to use the least amount of energy you can until you really need it. Suck wheels like it's nobody's business.

 

9. Get to know who's strong. If they go, you go. Simple.

 

10. All the courses are different. Some are flat, some are fast, some are technical, some have hills. Expect different results on different courses. Play to your strengths.

 

11. DO NOT ride the day before. Rest up. You need every ounce of snap in your legs as you can

 

12. Speaking of snap, a super stiff frame is best for crits. It doesn't have to be comfy. You're not there for long. But when you hammer, the bike needs to go forward - instantly. Aluminium frames are choice for crits. Lots of Cannonale CAAD 9s etc.

 

Have fun. It's challegning and dangerous and thilling.

 

Tristan

[Woofie]

I can help here. I have had this experience. I race criteriums in the US as my staple diet during summer. Cyclocross in Autumn.

 

Tips for Criteriums:

 

1. You must do VO2Max intervals to train your body for the surges that occur at each corner. The group slows down and then accelerates out of the corner. Say there are 30 laps and a 4 corner course, that's 120 surges of anywhere from 4 w/kg to 10+. My last crit had 32 surges of 4-6 w/kg; 40 of 6-8 w/kg and 53 from 8-10 w/kg (that's 560-700W) and 6 that were 10 w/kg and above. That's 121 micro intervals ranging from 280 - +1000W. And that is the bottom feeder league! You may be strong on the local group ride but you will be instantly dropped in your first crit without adequately preparing your body for this abuse. Just about everyone gets dropped the first time...unless they have some coaching

 

2. Follows #1: You MUST stay at the front. It's safer and the front guys roll through the corners faster. The guys in the middle and back slow down more and then need more power to accelerate. It follows that you need to do EVERYTHING to stay at the front. And I mean EVERYTHING. Even if you get dropped. There's no point in finishing midpack if you are just riding midpack. It's better to hit the front and finish midpack than just sit in.

 

3. High FTP (60 min TT power) helps because you dip less into the fuel tank for each surge.

 

4. Ride smart - stay at the front but NOT on the front. You will die a quick death if this is the case. If you don't then you are in the wrong group.

 

5. Hold your line around corners. It's dangerous to make skittish moves. The higher level groups are much smoother.

 

6. My rule (your results may vary) is that on the last lap, sprint when you want to. Don't wait for the sprint to happen. Unless you follow a terrific wheel and pull around at the last minute you will get caught out. I prefer to disrupt the group and sprint early. I haven't won like this (probably because I'm not a pure sprinter) but I always place higher when I do and it totally messes up the short burn, high power guys. They hate it.

 

7. Get to the line early and line up in front. There are no rules. Barge your way if you have to. So what. It's war.

 

8. Stay low, stay aero. You want to use the least amount of energy you can until you really need it. Suck wheels like it's nobody's business.

 

9. Get to know who's strong. If they go, you go. Simple.

 

10. All the courses are different. Some are flat, some are fast, some are technical, some have hills. Expect different results on different courses. Play to your strengths.

 

11. DO NOT ride the day before. Rest up. You need every ounce of snap in your legs as you can

 

12. Speaking of snap, a super stiff frame is best for crits. It doesn't have to be comfy. You're not there for long. But when you hammer, the bike needs to go forward - instantly. Aluminium frames are choice for crits. Lots of Cannonale CAAD 9s etc.

 

Have fun. It's challegning and dangerous and thilling.

 

Tristan

Always nice to hear someones own tips!

[dutchMan]

I can help here. I have had this experience. I race criteriums in the US as my staple diet during summer. Cyclocross in Autumn.

 

Tips for Criteriums:

 

1. You must do VO2Max intervals to train your body for the surges that occur at each corner. The group slows down and then accelerates out of the corner. Say there are 30 laps and a 4 corner course, that's 120 surges of anywhere from 4 w/kg to 10+. My last crit had 32 surges of 4-6 w/kg; 40 of 6-8 w/kg and 53 from 8-10 w/kg (that's 560-700W) and 6 that were 10 w/kg and above. That's 121 micro intervals ranging from 280 - +1000W. And that is the bottom feeder league! You may be strong on the local group ride but you will be instantly dropped in your first crit without adequately preparing your body for this abuse. Just about everyone gets dropped the first time...unless they have some coaching

 

2. Follows #1: You MUST stay at the front. It's safer and the front guys roll through the corners faster. The guys in the middle and back slow down more and then need more power to accelerate. It follows that you need to do EVERYTHING to stay at the front. And I mean EVERYTHING. Even if you get dropped. There's no point in finishing midpack if you are just riding midpack. It's better to hit the front and finish midpack than just sit in.

 

3. High FTP (60 min TT power) helps because you dip less into the fuel tank for each surge.

 

4. Ride smart - stay at the front but NOT on the front. You will die a quick death if this is the case. If you don't then you are in the wrong group.

 

5. Hold your line around corners. It's dangerous to make skittish moves. The higher level groups are much smoother.

 

6. My rule (your results may vary) is that on the last lap, sprint when you want to. Don't wait for the sprint to happen. Unless you follow a terrific wheel and pull around at the last minute you will get caught out. I prefer to disrupt the group and sprint early. I haven't won like this (probably because I'm not a pure sprinter) but I always place higher when I do and it totally messes up the short burn, high power guys. They hate it.

 

7. Get to the line early and line up in front. There are no rules. Barge your way if you have to. So what. It's war.

 

8. Stay low, stay aero. You want to use the least amount of energy you can until you really need it. Suck wheels like it's nobody's business.

 

9. Get to know who's strong. If they go, you go. Simple.

 

10. All the courses are different. Some are flat, some are fast, some are technical, some have hills. Expect different results on different courses. Play to your strengths.

 

11. DO NOT ride the day before. Rest up. You need every ounce of snap in your legs as you can

 

12. Speaking of snap, a super stiff frame is best for crits. It doesn't have to be comfy. You're not there for long. But when you hammer, the bike needs to go forward - instantly. Aluminium frames are choice for crits. Lots of Cannonale CAAD 9s etc.

 

Have fun. It's challegning and dangerous and thilling.

 

Tristan

 

 

Thank you Tristan, you have outlined it quite nicely, just to apply it now.

[onetrackmind]

PPO or FTP? PPO I know of a good few SV that are pushing 6.5w/kg. So before you talk **** yourself lets get on the same page.

Then they are probably telling porky pies about their weight...