Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 27, 2011 Share @ grb - I echo Capricorn's view here as well. Sick suggestion. But if you think about it, what are we paying for access? R 60 for the 12 visit card, and then R 285 for the yearly permit. That's R 400 per year. R 35 per month or so. Where can you get access to such a fantastic recreational area for that little? If you ride twice per month, that's R 17.50 per ride. I don't see how you can complain about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 27, 2011 Share @ Pain & Shine and Captain Mayhem Thanks for Sundays' work and for sorting my least favourite root out! Sorry, I couldn't make it, the flu got me. Yeah, this flu lately is harsh, ain't it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach7-7 Posted June 27, 2011 Share I had a thought as well, what about a reward system for trailbuilders? What would the possibility be of having a card that can be stamped for trailbuilding days where each session helped out, can be turned into a free ride day, or 'x' amount of build days can be turned into a Wildcard. This will get guys involved and it won't have this charity feeling to it. Just a thought. Hey grb285, I can see your passion and determination. I too am like you, seen the trails at their peak and seen them change through time to this very day. I am no fool, I fully understand the damage to trails by high volumes of traffic, as I mentioned in my previous quote. Read it again. Just one thing to consider wrt the above quote... Do Sanparks actually know who and how many people actually participate in trail mainenance?. Would they know you chaps by first name??. I highly doubt it. Like I said, they don't care, so your idea of a reward system is good, but I cannot see it working... Another thing, trees can provide stability of sand. If I must compare erosion before all of the pines were cut it can be seen that the trails were staying undamaged for a much longer period. Like I said, I have been riding these trails for longer than most Hub members. You only joined theHub a month ago and I am pretty sure that you have only known Tokai for a relatively short period of time. I may be wrong, but like I said, I was around before DH bikes were made, in other words before the trails at Tokai were offered "man made" assistance..... and interestingly enough, everyone complaining about the trail conditions is referring to the 600m of pure DH, so its all the downhill riders?. Correct? So, fabulous Fynbos that requires controlled fire burning every 5 years.... Bring it on and all of the erosion while there is no ground cover.. (sand dunes without vegetation = sand dune shift).. You gotta love the lack of real environmental thinking given by the crude minded business bean counters of Sanparks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJR Posted June 27, 2011 Share Yeah, this flu lately is harsh, ain't it?!My medical mate tells me it is mostly the "swine flu" that was so feared two winters ago that is now the most common nasty around. So, treat it with respect when it comes to exercise and wait until you are fine before training too hard again. My wife tells me that I definitely must have the swine flu because I behave like one when I cannot ride my bike for more than a few days. Personally, I think she's wrong, because if it it was the swine flu, I would have felt like joining you on Sunday for some rolling in the mud, trailbuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leet22 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Yeah, this flu lately is harsh, ain't it?!Yea guys take it easy . Go to Docs and get it checked out. I left mine and was almost hospitalized with pneumonia. So now off bike for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 27, 2011 Share Not cool, Leet. I don't have it, but I know people who do. It's not pretty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 27, 2011 Share Hey grb285, I can see your passion and determination. I too am like you, seen the trails at their peak and seen them change through time to this very day. I am no fool, I fully understand the damage to trails by high volumes of traffic, as I mentioned in my previous quote. Read it again. Just one thing to consider wrt the above quote... Do Sanparks actually know who and how many people actually participate in trail mainenance?. Would they know you chaps by first name??. I highly doubt it. Like I said, they don't care, so your idea of a reward system is good, but I cannot see it working... Another thing, trees can provide stability of sand. If I must compare erosion before all of the pines were cut it can be seen that the trails were staying undamaged for a much longer period. Like I said, I have been riding these trails for longer than most Hub members. You only joined theHub a month ago and I am pretty sure that you have only known Tokai for a relatively short period of time. I may be wrong, but like I said, I was around before DH bikes were made, in other words before the trails at Tokai were offered "man made" assistance..... and interestingly enough, everyone complaining about the trail conditions is referring to the 600m of pure DH, so its all the downhill riders?. Correct? So, fabulous Fynbos that requires controlled fire burning every 5 years.... Bring it on and all of the erosion while there is no ground cover.. (sand dunes without vegetation = sand dune shift).. You gotta love the lack of real environmental thinking given by the crude minded business bean counters of Sanparks.... No. That was an entirely different argument. But that doesn't reduce the need for the rest of the trails to be maintained. Which is exactly what is being done. The 600m that you refer to has not really even begun to be worked on yet... That was another section of the DH routes that was being complained about, but for different reasons. As for which trails have been worked on, they are, in no particular order: Faerie Garden (beginner trail - far from DH)Vasbyt (most of it, but still more to be done)Divert on Vasbyt, for those going up So no, not all downhill track. Some for ALL riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted June 27, 2011 Share Read Mach7-7's first post again.. makes good point. But, if I may offer mine.. Those trails you rode back then, they weren't built by SANParks, were they? Nope. Volunteers. So nothing has changed in all these years, what does that do to your theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 27, 2011 Share Absolutely, Pain or Shine... He does indeed. Especially regarding the potential future loss of Tokai Forest as a riding destination due to the lack of work on the trails... one thing though - there are areas where there is JUST fynbos, and it is quite rideable. Rinkhals and Mamba remained rideable for aeons while it was surrounded only by Fynbos. It's just lack of maintenance that has led it to become as sandy and rutted as it is now. Fynbos does still have some root structure to it. Not as deep as the pine does, but it's still there. And the trails, if maintained properly, can still thrive when there is fynbos there. IMHO, that is... Even so, there is still alot of work to be done. If I am wrong, please tell me... Oh - and Deon - rode the berm today. 'twas sweet as, bro. Drops you right into the corner, and creates a SWEET line all the way through the corner. It's packed in very nicely for only just 24 hours, and it will continue to get better. The absence of the barbed wire was another real bonus! Still gotta do the plank jumps though... Legs were a bit stiff this arvo! Edited June 27, 2011 by cptmayhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted June 27, 2011 Share "Remember, I am totally in support of trail maintenance, I just think that certain precedences are being set and will not be doing us very good. Neighbourhood patrols (crime watch) started out in the BKM area so well until the patrolling companies realised that the more the public do the less they have to do, with the effect that they take so long to respond. In this same manner, we are not doing ourselves any favours..." Thanks.. really. See, for all the time the trail has been around, it was only when the attention on the trees surfaced that anything became an issue. Keep this in mind when comparing the past to the future of the trail. Times they are a changing and thank goodness for people like Meurant who retained ownership.. it is ours and as small our the voice is, know the words are going to the right people, do not doubt this. Who would you have building your trails. Parks or Volunteers on forums like these where your requests are heard? Loss of trails from logging and Fynbos management has been considered. Edited June 27, 2011 by Pain or Shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 27, 2011 Share My medical mate tells me it is mostly the "swine flu" that was so feared two winters ago that is now the most common nasty around. So, treat it with respect when it comes to exercise and wait until you are fine before training too hard again. My wife tells me that I definitely must have the swine flu because I behave like one when I cannot ride my bike for more than a few days. Personally, I think she's wrong, because if it it was the swine flu, I would have felt like joining you on Sunday for some rolling in the mud, trailbuilding. Makes sense. Both your mate's point and your wife's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 27, 2011 Share "Remember, I am totally in support of trail maintenance, I just think that certain precedences are being set and will not be doing us very good. Neighbourhood patrols (crime watch) started out in the BKM area so well until the patrolling companies realised that the more the public do the less they have to do, with the effect that they take so long to respond. In this same manner, we are not doing ourselves any favours..." Thanks.. really. See, for all the time the trail has been around, it was only when the attention on the trees surfaced that anything became an issue. Keep this in mind when comparing the past to the future of the trail. Times they are a changing and thank goodness for people like Meurant who retained ownership.. it is ours and as small our the voice is, know the words are going to the right people, do not doubt this. Who would you have building your trails. Parks or Volunteers on forums like these where your requests are heard? Loss of trails from logging and Fynbos management has been considered. It is strange, that, isn't it? After all the work that Meurant put into it initially, the REAL focus (from those outside) only really started happening in the last few months, max 1 year... Just after it was publicized that there were plans to cut everything down over the next few years... I think alot of that was a spin-off from the sentimentality that everyone here has with Tokai Forest as a whole. And then the MTBers who weren't the volunteers working on the trails (like me) suddenly thought "Hang on. If the trees are going, what about the trails?" Like they were never there before and always sustained themselves... Like little trail gnomes (not Fairies, Pain) were just maintaining them overnight, sleeping in the brooks and pine-boughs during the day. Getting it on with the trail fairies to create trail nirvana... Sorry - the visualization carried on a bit there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach7-7 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Hey guys, Thanks for all the feedback. I always enjoy reading about how people feel and understanding various points of view. I would like to commend the following people (pardon me if I have left you out): CPTMayhem, DJR, Pain or Shine etc. You guys are doing a tremendous job on the trails and I promise you that it does not go unnoticed, my mates and I truly appreciate it!! It was not my intention to enter into any arguments. I merely like to contribute where I can. The most important thing in this topic is that irrespective of riding discipline, we are all bike nuts who are passionate about this sport!! As mentioned in the past, I would not know who maintained the trails in the late 80's / early 90's and I doubt anyone here would have a clue either?. Back then there was no internet easily available and an awesome forum like this was a schoolboy's dream!. I guess I could ask some of my older Wharthog friends, I am sure they would know. There is a lot of young blood here in the hub, which is a good thing, but sometimes there is no substitute for experience. Something I was wondering about and perhaps someone can help me out here?. Are there any hubbers in this topic affiliated to the Sanparks?. Reason why I am asking is who decides where a trail can start / end?. As well as who can call the shots and possibly re-route a trail in order to possibly save an existing trail due to water logging or a broken tree which may have fallen and blocked the path?. Do you submit a trail re-route plan to Sanparks or do you just use common sense?. And who decides where to build new trails?. I for one would not know who gives this authority?. PLease can someone explain this to me. I would very much like to understand the procedure. Another thing, and I don't mean to hijack this thread.... I am always amused at people saying "you know the rules!". Well, I am stumped... What rules would everyone be refering to?. We know general rules like: no fires, no picnicking, dogs on leads only, horses on horse paths, riding times etc... but what mountain rules are being referred to? I am not aware of Sanparks publishing any "rules of the mountain"?. We all know the rules of the road when driving thanks to K53 books etc... But until I physically see a mountain rule book, then I guess Im just gonna use my noggin and hopefully common sense. Chaps, its been swell. I don't often get onto the Hub but when I do I always look forward to reading a good topic, especially one close to home. Please PM me the next trailbuilding date and I will try and be available to help. Keep up the good work, it does not go unnoticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb285 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Hey grb285, I can see your passion and determination. I too am like you, seen the trails at their peak and seen them change through time to this very day. I am no fool, I fully understand the damage to trails by high volumes of traffic, as I mentioned in my previous quote. Read it again. Just one thing to consider wrt the above quote... Do Sanparks actually know who and how many people actually participate in trail mainenance?. Would they know you chaps by first name??. I highly doubt it. Like I said, they don't care, so your idea of a reward system is good, but I cannot see it working... Another thing, trees can provide stability of sand. If I must compare erosion before all of the pines were cut it can be seen that the trails were staying undamaged for a much longer period. Like I said, I have been riding these trails for longer than most Hub members. You only joined theHub a month ago and I am pretty sure that you have only known Tokai for a relatively short period of time. I may be wrong, but like I said, I was around before DH bikes were made, in other words before the trails at Tokai were offered "man made" assistance..... and interestingly enough, everyone complaining about the trail conditions is referring to the 600m of pure DH, so its all the downhill riders?. Correct? So, fabulous Fynbos that requires controlled fire burning every 5 years.... Bring it on and all of the erosion while there is no ground cover.. (sand dunes without vegetation = sand dune shift).. You gotta love the lack of real environmental thinking given by the crude minded business bean counters of Sanparks....I've had a little too much red wine, so I'll need to think properly in the morning...but why do you think a reward system wont work? It makes sense, think about it. Works for VidaE. It will get people involved. The more hands, the lighter the work. Umm, and I'm not talking about the 600m of DH. The whole parks needs regular work. Perhaps if a decent system is worked out, we'll be able to start looking at some new lines? I've got several mapped on my GPS ready for cutting. cheers boys, hic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreTrails Posted June 27, 2011 Share Captain - human nature, panic at the 11th hour about how you plan to fix the problem...similar scenarios:Global warmingHuman populationCape Towns sewerage system... Ok, reality - the trees help with stabilizing the soil. Fynbos likes sandy soil. MTB is the biggest growing sport in SA (fact). All Cape Town mtb'ers feel a sense of ownership and passion for Tokia (if you don't, you wierd). Forestry is big bucks... SO, instead of me telling everyone what should've been done....how about throwing out the possibilities and ideas of what can be done? I see the forestry as an awesome time to plan for the future. Tree's won't be felled again for lets say a minimum of 20 years? Which gives us the opportunity to negotiate and make some new amazing trails.It gives us the chance of sorting out the flow for safety sake of the riders - going both up and downIt offers us a damn good reason to get involved and make some new special features or extending existing runs to make long flowing trails that makes the world want come ride in our back garden - hell we are going to benefit from it personally over the next 20 yearsWe have been lent this great piece of land, something that allows us to ride in relative safety and to ride our hearts out at whatever level we can. Yes the system of getting permission is flawed, but so is the way that the trails are made and maintained. And we all rely on a small nucleus of people that are operating within this difficult system to make it happen - to get permission, get volunteers, get it built.... So, how about some ideas for the people involved who are watching this thread? I'll give you an example: I am going to make a mission to find as much dis-used timber from the construction sites that I am involved in to donate for features, propping, stabilising - hell for braai after a long day digging at the trail side. Who's next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted June 27, 2011 Share In the car park, at the gate where everyone gathers to read out a receipt number or hand over ones wild card, just above Gavin's head, possibly Brian's or Sandile's, Nathan or Winston's head.. is a big green board. It has lots of writing on it, surprised no-one sees it. It is huge! Those are the rules. Sorry guys, not to be short or anything, but look it up. SANParks website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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