(Deon)

I read in Rob's post somewhere that the greenbelts are hardly ever policed so the chances of being caught are slim. I dunno about this so I've steered clear, it was also somewhere on the same page that suggested Cecelia was now on trial.. each to their own I guess.

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Ja, it's that perception that has again made people angry for getting in trouble and hate on parks even more. Hey, just out of interest, what if I told you I have a document in my hand that says the speed limit is now 140. Would you blindly believe me and get angry with the cop?

I'm not sure Dave. It's on CoCT land and therefore another win for mountain bikers. I'm not sure it relates to the discussion around links to and from the Table Mountain National Park, to one day become part of the peninsula route - which may even need links through private land. But who knows, it may at some point connect safely to Deer Park from town as an access node.

It's approved but not open yet. I heard MOU's were being signed but this was in the closed newsletter to TMB members only. Signage is next to make it official.

huh? Constantia I think was the first. Does it make a difference where if we are discussing CoCT as an entity?

Toby, simply put, the timing for a commuter route off the tar was perfect. Tokai and Silvermine closure drove the need more than ever and finally through Table Mountain Bikers, access was officially granted. There has been an upswell over several years around the world for this type of trail and commuting lifestyle. A few years ago I was involved in promoting the idea of a cycling city through Think-Bike and several respected and influential people. The ground work had been laid down for such thinking and really only needed activation. All sorts of ideas were presented; special racks (some of the designs I see are being made now) allowing parking for 20 bikes in the space of 1 car, viral awareness campaigns, a few challenges to prove it can be done and help gain traction. Keep in mind that this was when the City was still quite resistant to bikes and didn't take us seriously enough to allocate budget to the ideas.. Helen Zille once raced Andrew Wheeldon home in the traffic, her in the mayoral Prius and him on a bike. Well, from then the proof that bikes were more effective and (weather permitting) more viable than cars to provide a realistic solution around parking and congestion. Soon we heard Alan Winde latched onto the idea of a cycling city and has shown no signs of slowing. This was when the planning for NMT routes started rolling out. So when Rob from TMB pushed for greenbelt access, along with Table Mountain National Park link process already underway through the MTB forum, the will was there. Also people had been riding it for years without major incident, so equally, the foot-traffic was not resistant either.

Sorry I have to pull you back into this. Cecelia is currently off limits to cyclists. I don't mean the Cork tree trail, Cecelia as a whole. The process is to rewrite into the EMP the allocation of the area to allow cyclists, not reroute traffic when planned logistics could have quite easily not have considered riders at all. I'm not sure what public comment you refer to, there has not been one for mountain biking yet, certainly not for the cork tree trail which is what we are discussing.

You just need one approval, don't matter where. Several factors came together simultaneously to make the approval reasonably effortless, ask Rob how easy it was when just 2 years ago council were still breaking down kids tracks in 3 areas I know of while avoiding discussions.. A few of these factors is that mountain biking has existed in a poorly catered form for too many years and with the fire, the timing for CoCT access was prime. Remember, the Tokai trails has 15+ years of proof that a community can look after a set of trails, so the basis for care is there and this is a big feather in the community's cap. But again, my point was that Table Mountain National Park helped motivate this need with the idea to link two sets of land. I cannot really comment on timeframe as the whole Park is being reviewed. Let's rather keep to the topic at hand and discuss matters to slow the pace so we can have some understanding before moving on, agree? Also to say we are no closer does not seem reasonable given what I have said above.

Opposing felling and not securing an MOA can also be seen as a failure. Not knocking you or your efforts, but as you say, it comes down to playing the game and right now we sit without any proof of the activity existing - on paper.

I agree fully that when it comes to turnaround time, a whole new policy should be adopted but what can we do. I'm not sure changing tactics before we have completed the first task is wise. We do this every time the rugby team loses and x amount of coaches later we are still losing. December is when the legislated planning process comes to an end. Butting heads now as we've done in the past may only be detrimental with the timeframe left. Hey, the fire is what we all wanted.. cyclists, botanists, scientists and conservationists alike. It was literally the fire under asses the process needed and for the pines to go, not in ten years time, now.. I'll say it again, we have the support of Table Mountain National Park. Heck, Gavin Bell even sat with Liz Brunette and explained the vision of the end goal being the circa-peninsula route, why do you think CoCT greenbelt access was passed so quickly? If you need more proof, then I don't know.

This is so important to the discussion around Tokai, not the bigshots stuff but the history of trying. It was only in November 2011 that it became a head-office issue, no longer a one-man vendetta against a certain group of users... or is this an inconvenient bit of history? Edit: oh and thanks for the vote of confidence.

No problem! We do have the dates minuted by our consultant and approved by Table Mountain National Park so it's happening whether the public believes it or not. Goosebay, out of interest what is your history?

iirc, I was also given the same info but if it is still valid today?? Not sure. Remember that the lease agreement between whichever group and Cape Pine regarding access to this road, as well as any maintenance they are responsible for may have a bearing. It did regarding the Cork tree trail. They are certainly a stakeholder and as such have a say in access - provided it is in the contract.

Look, let me start with an apology. I do understand your frustration and whether you want this next bit or not, it will help you. I am quite happy to provide you and anyone else with the info that I am supplied, even the information that I have to scrounge around to find. My belief is that it's not right to leave you standing at the "front-line" without the news that the war is over, which it is! The answer currently stands at "no" to the Cork tree trail, and it has been for some time. Process vs expectations Here is my side. I read on a daily basis about how SANParks should just do *this* or *that* and when the comments is approached with some details as to why it's not going to *just* happen, the blinkers come out. Then as a result, as it usually is, the blame is laid at SANParks' door to say that: 1. don't fine us for doing something we should not be doing, and 2. your energy would be better spent catching criminals elsewhere. To challenge this mindset is usually met with anger because the belief stems from the undesirable answer to fast-tracking such a request as the Cork tree trail, i.e. "because SANParks is saying "no" to a trial basis for a short, outlying, existing piece of track, we will ride there regardless and make a mockery of the consequences." Then when they take a stand and divert their resources to uphold a condition set in paper, tensions are raised and the divide just widens. That is when the process, as an inadvertent casualty loses your support and this should not be allowed to happen, which is why I take the time to try explain. You don't see anyone else apart from TokaiMTB members trying, do you? I'm sure you will agree that during negotiations, this is not a healthy situation. It's not far off from angry mobs throwing poo at innocent passers-by because results are not immediately forthcoming. So I'm sure you can see from my point-of-view that frustration is shared on both sides. Nobody ever said this will be a quick process and the concept of "fast-track", or "trial basis" does not exist in govt. vocab, yet the announcement was basically passed off as 'in the bag' to a very large subscriber base and subsequently all further information or updates ceased - apart from those being sent to a closed group warning of the consequence if caught. So Toby and others, I cannot blame you for your frustration, your expectations are not being met and nor are you being informed of the progress in this specific instance.. but please understand that there is only 1 process and it is a slow one. Any promises of it being sped up through trials or any other means is just not going to happen and creates unrealistic expectations. As it is, we are nearing the completion of a large portion which will have the greatest bearing on our activity. I expect progress will be more consistent when the EMP is out the way and then we can start talking about the juicy bits, being trails with public participation. All the points for the approval of the Cork tree trail listed in this thread ARE valid and will certainly be presented as such. I can't see that it will be met with any overriding resistance from the public and that is where the crux of approval lies.. (also with Cape Pine so I hope this little saga does not have a negative impact but that's another story.) Most importantly, when you understand the constraints of the process you can look objectively at any news that tries to raise hopes but inevitably leaves you hanging, especially if it's around a court room bench!!

Toby, do you want more info or not? You seem quite resistant to understanding the constraints and seem incapable of working out the difference between Table Mountain National Park (a National Park surrounded by a city comprising several million people, attracting a further few hundred thousand international visitors annually and foot-traffic estimated at ±4 million annual recorded entries) and the Richtersveld National Park on furthest reaches of the country's border. I'd love to explain a few points in detail to help you understand why your wishes are not as easy and as simple to attain as you believe. Remember, you are not alone but to act like you are is selfish. DJR however can understand, has chosen the side of patience, chooses to support the process and had the choice of not letting your "nonsense" go unanswered. He is wise.

Hey Myles, remember when he did all that and more in 2012 at the Dirtopia weekend on a 120mm Pyga? He went from the enduro, straight to the dual slalom, then to the dirt jumps, repeated all that several times and then ended off with some DH only to win that too.. the fork eventually blew coz it couldn't keep up. (actually, come to think of it not even that slowed him down)

You gonna have to catch me first!

You joke.. this is also on my shopping list. http://www.bobs-bicycles.com/images/W/Maxxis-Holy-Roller-Tire.jpg

Thanks for the review Iwan, had the Ibex on my mind for a while, glad I found this... one question; were you able to test it on some dry, loose-over-hardpack? The 55a almost says it will offer grip in this condition but would be good to hear the real world verdict. Slightly strayed from the tyre tested, does anyone have experience with 60tpi? Looking for a strong sidewall that can handle hard cornering.

No, he would definitely not have made that corner. Not a chance.

Your three main points in the post are as follows: “50 cyclists fined on the 1.5km long 'cork tree trail’” “Black Hill route [attempted mugging].. where were the TMNP field rangers?” “I hiked the pipe track above Camps Bay and there were so many people on the track..” My comments on these points are as follows: 50 cyclists caught in an area where they should not be cycling. (Assuming you want to know actual facts about this, I'm open to discuss this in more detail should you wish.) The current Black Hill track is not on Table Mountain National Park land. This is a CoCT initiative and safety is a factor I did try highlighting at the start of the construction process.. I do get your reference however, you are insinuating that people being fined in Cecelia is more important than muggers being chased by Table Mountain National Park rangers. (linked to point 1 regarding access, also open to discuss in more detail.) More people on the mountain = less muggings. A concept shared by all reps not just those saying it - it is pure logic, an increased number on the mountains pushes criminal element out by reducing opportunity. Not to say it is the absolute solution but does contribute heavily towards safety - Added to numbers, cleaning up areas and developing a facility to physically accommodate more people welcomes the public in in a controlled, enjoyable and sustainable manner. It does however require a process to identify and meet the requirements, a process currently underway.What I do want to state is that any attempt to bypass the process required by several conservation acts, and also from a user fairness point of view cannot offer any long lasting results. Tokai reps have tried for years and it was only when we embarked on following process that we started seeing results. It is the law and one the employes of this National Park are required to follow. Think of it as someone's job, not doing it is as much a problem as not getting what we want through trying to circumvent process.

Say that again?!?! How many?

I wouldn't mind a few hand-me-downs in that range either. Morning.

Posted Yesterday, 18:02 Eddy Gordo, on 06 Aug 2015 - 6:31 PM, said: Eddy, sorry this one slipped through without being noticed.. I understand Mark's hesitance to go into detail with the recent misunderstanding about opening dates but I have a bit more info on this and will be able to elaborate. Important to mention at this point that until the ground study is complete, no trail discussion here is cast in stone but I can certainly try to convey the motivation being seen on both sides of the fence. To answer your question in short, yes.. The long story.. is that the ground study (TRRP - rationalisation) will include the areas; Silvermine, Tokai and Vlakkenburg. An obstacle that needs to be considered is that a lot of what is planned in undisturbed areas will almost without doubt trigger a NEMA study and for this and to help avoid delays, the two Tokai adjacent areas will be included in the TRRP. NB, NEMA will drag the process out extensively, especially in undisturbed areas but this is not to say it cannot be done. As an indication to how real the possibility of more trails on that side is (while staying under the radar), I have already been sent out at Park's request before the fire to scope the possible Tokai/Silvermine singletrack link. Two trails are now on the table that both minimises disturbance while keeping the lengths below EIA thresholds. As far as more trails in Silvermine are concerned, there really is only one other viable route which was historically in existence. It has been plotted at a TMMTB forum workshop and based on it's existence, getting around NEMA should be easier and quicker than combing new trails throughout the reserve. Vlakkenburg is another story, it's the Mast but off-road. Categorised as "wilderness"!! Determination should your motivation Did I understand your question?? If not, oooops, hope you enjoyed the read none-the-less