The_Break

I do not believe that is true. So long as you can prove breaking and entering or illegal entry then they should cover it. I have claimed three times since 2008 from Cyclsure to the value of about R40k and they are very, very fast and professional with the minimum of questions asked. Those claims alone far outway the premiums I have already paid and with continue to pay for them for some time still. 2 of my claims where when I was outside the country and within 2-3 days I had the cash in my bank account and could replace then at my nearest dealer. I would not hesitate to go with Cyclesure. There have been a few nasty comments about them, but once you look into the actual circumstances you always see that the people complaining did not follow the policy guidelines and rules. So yeah, Cyclesure for sure!

Here is an interesting link that deals with chain length and chain wear. As already said it does work in inches. http://www.epicidiot.com/sports/chain_length_calculator.htm

Reminds me of the movie Hostel. Contact Paul Wolff from the Ironman Shop in PE. He will be able to give you the full run-down of Austria. From all my mates that have done it though they said it was awesome. Treat yourself to a nice holiday.

I have spent a lot of time in the East, especially in China. The only way is to play to their superstitions. Unfortunately Rhino horn plays there and there are too many people to get the message across too for that to change. Hope that does not sound negative, but their ways of thinking are very, very different to ours. A better way is to get a really harsh rep for anti-poaching. A no-nonsense approach. Kill and ask questions later. Unfortunately this will not be above board, but then again, there are ways and I am sure that there are people who would be willing to help if it meant the survival of a species. Wars are seldom won or ended by talking to the enemy when the enemy has nothing to gain by it. Those wars are won on the ground by foot soldiers who root out the enemy and make sure no more will come.

I think you should try your plucking and write down the notes. They will vary, but I do believe we agree on one thing. All spokes are still under tension. Hook up with a Muso and get us those notes. My theory is still correct either way you look at it.

Yeah it was a rather nice discussion. Also shows how dangerous ti can be to pull things from google without working fromm first principles. I think we would have more nice threads like this if we did work from first principles step by step till we all came to the same conclusion. Hopefully the right one each time. With that I am off to take my bike for some nice mountIN sceneray in the Cape. Caio!

I still think one of the sexiest items around come from Zipp: Vuma Quad Crankset with Ceramic BB. I would also mention the Zipp stem and bar, but one item here.

Big H, I have another theory I would like to test out. It is that you are actually just a trouble maker here on the Hub and provoke people so that you can get a response whilst you sit all alone there in Nigeria? I have been watching your sarcastic remarks for some time now and that is why I told you off the other day. You are pissing people off so you can only expect them to want to take you on. For goodness sakes, you are a grown man heading up what sounds like a large team of people on a huge project. Is this really the kind of leaders we have here or are you just BSing us on what you actually do? I really cannot say I have come across someone in very senior position that displays this kind of behaviour. To me you would not have gotten that high with that attitude. But carry on, keep making comments like that if you like because sooner or later people realize the truth about people. And Admin if you want to ban this post and me from the Hub then go right ahead. BUT, at least give others the opportunity to say what they feel in some kind of forum without you shutting it down cause sooner or later people just have enough.

I just read that report again. That graph is not a strain graph for the strain inside the spokes. It is a strain graph for the strain inside the rim structure itself. It therefore has no bearing on this argument at all and can therefore be dismissed. That is why it never made sense to me before and also why it never satisfied Newton's Third Law. So, I think having said that, the only explanation we still have is the orinigal one. Good night and may The Force (yes the one in the upper spokes) be with you!

The hub needs to be balanced from a force perspective. Assume tension in top spoke is X pulling upward. Assume tension in bottom spoke is Y pulling downward. Assume hub has an external mass of M acting downward on it with a resulting force of Mxg or W. To balance the hub and get a resulting force of 0 on it the equation is Force = 0 = X - Y - W Thus X = Y + W Thus you see that although the equation is statically indeterminate (doesn't have enough info to solve it using basic maths) it does show that the upper spoke actually increase its tension. The force that holds the bike up is the equal and opposite that the hub exerts on the frame. In other words if we look at the external forces being applied to the hub by the spokes Sum of forces = X - Y = W and hence it is effectively the spokes holding the hub up which holds the frame up. Now you can see why I do not agree with using strain and that diagram cause the tension in the top is larger as originally stated. That diagram "indicates" that there is no force in the uper spokes which is nonsense. What is more, in order that the wheel spokes are never loose, it is a basic requirement that W will always to smaller than Y. This means that both the upper and lower spokes always remain in tension and thus the wheel neither truly hangs or is supported by the upper or lower part of the wheel, but rather suspended by tension in all spokes that fluctuate in a signus graph as originally stated.

You cannot use that plot in your calculations. You are assuming the plot is correct. What we need to determine is how you get to the plot. The specific literature does not explain it all that well and to be honest, there is something bugging me about using strain in this way and relating it directly back to tension in the spokes, but I cannot put my finger on in right now cause strain was probably the subject I enjoyed least. Let's stick to determining from 1st Principles if I may ask for such respect for our Profs who taught us that much.

Hi Agteros I really don't mean to insult you with this next comment as I understand this is not yor field and I would not argue with you in your work place, but these things will not make sense unless you have a technical background. There are numerous formula which you will need to understand, but to even start to explain them in detail will take a very, very long time here on the hub so when engineers explain it here, as I did at the start it is done in simplified form. Broken down to the very basics of physics as this is the starting point for all calculations. Unless you can understand Newton, which you don't seem to, then it is gonna be hard to explain the rest. I suggest what Topwine did as a good starting point. Imagine just two elastic spokes with a fixed rim and then try move the hub down. Think about what will happen in each spoke as you move it? What will happen when you release it. Then slowly start to add more and more spokes. You will see what happens. Then you just make the elastic less elastic and it starts to resemble a wheel. Hope this helps? If you want we can go step for step till all is understood. But hope your maths is ok.

Oh no, I hate string theory and now you are forcing me to do the calcs on this one. I sure hope that my wheels do not bend space time cause then they are for sure too heavy.

I just looked at that figure again. It seems they may have forgotten to apply a tensile force to the theoretical model. Check the values and the colour increments used. The problem I have with some of the experiement using a disc assumption is that it does not account for the tension in the spokes. A ridig disc will show stress/strain in the lower part of the wheel like this, but once again it is in my opinion not a good model if you relate it to Newton. I know I said this a lot, but one equation here is not making sense.

Fair enough, I am glad you didn't just pull it off google. Seems you understand it well enough. But, there results do not fall in line with the Newton. They even say there is an anomoly they cannot account for in their calculations.

Don't forget, Newtons Law applies to all parts of the wheel. So if the hub is being "supported/pushed upward" by the bottom spokes it would need to do "pushed down" by the upper spokes in order that it does not accelerate off into space. So even though the wheel is loaded at its axle, it has an effective pull on the rim at the top. If you simply apply this basic law of action and reaction to the entire wheel, bit by bit you will see what is happening.

Now we need to be clear, you understand what the difference between strain and tension is right? I.e. stress vs. strain. As a hint, look at that document again on the wheel analysis where the used FEA to model. You will notice the strain varies along the length of individual spokes. If you saw a similar diagram showing Axial Stress (Stress = F/A) it would be consistant along the entire length.

Now you going to confuse the hell out of everyone. This is a right pulling spoke showing strain. I have tried to keep it simple and have used a straight (radial) spoke configuration.

Newton taught us this. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I.e. if you press at the top of the wheel the bottom of the wheel is pushed back equally as hard by the ground. As the wheel's rim will also want to form a slightly ovalized shape as it is "squashed" it tends to want to pull the horizontal spokes as it tries to do this. Tension in the spokes means you are trying to lengthen the spokes. This can be seen as the hub "pulling" the spoke in one direction and the rim/nipple "pulling" the spoke in the opposite direction. If you now push the rim/nipple toward the hub, you effectively "pull" less and thereby decrease the tension. Note: decrease the tension but not make it zero or negative. It is this constantly "positive tension" that keeps a wheel strong.

Besides the bike setup as already mentioned it could also be an incompatibility with your shifters from an ergonomic point of view. I had this problem with Campy Record and could not get around it. It tuned out the width of campy was the exact shape and width of the tendon between my thumb and index finger knuckles which cause unneccessary tension and somehow bit my nerves in the area. Once I swapped to another make it went away.

I think it was to get that old man so excited cause damn it made him dance funny!

I have heard a lot about these hubs being great, but what are they really all about. Is it looks or friction or? Maybe someone can explain why they so good?

A hub niether hangs nor rests, rather it is pulled equally outward in all direction when it is in the unloaded (i.e. no rider) condition. When you load the wheel the top and bottom spokes then increase and decrease their tension equally and respectively, whislt the left and right spokes increase their tension equally, yet are all still under an effective pull or tension force (corrected). The actual variation is a nice smooth positively offset sinus shaped graph as you move around the wheel with mean at the unloaded tension. If this was not the case the spokes would be loose and the wheel would fall apart. That is the basic way a wheel works anyhow.

I will have to ask him to write it down for me cause it ws way too much for me to remember all. The one thing I did remember that I found interesting was how he sets up a saddle for racing when it has a concave mid section. He was an awesome time trialist in his day and he sets up the front tip higher than the rear, the amount you would normally raise a saddle if you moved into a normall TT position. He said that is actually one of the reasons why they put this dip into the design of some saddle to allow an uptilt without interefering with your main vein when in a normal riding position. He used it in break situation in an aero position similar to what Cancellara does with the hands over the bars and moved forward. He set me up like that once and it is actually pretty effective. The rest I cant recal enough to write down here.

Brass Town Bald after a 160km stage over some seriously rugged country. Oh, and doing those climbs at speed!