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Captain Fastbastard Mayhem

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Everything posted by Captain Fastbastard Mayhem

  1. Oh, it bites me too. Don't get me wrong - I don't LIKE the change, and if it changes any more it may affect how we do business wrt Discovery & vitality and the in-house testing etc. But I am confident that it will be changing for the better in the future. Overall though, I understand why they did it, and perhaps that tempers my irritation somewhat.
  2. So do I, Martin. So do I. It's still motivating me though - I was going to be training this PM, until I remembered I have an assignment due at 12 tomorrow (took me 2 hours to klap, but that's beside the point) I need another 400 points. I hit the gym on Sunday to swim with my lightie. Nothing since, cos my OH has been super busy with a squash tournament and photo shoots. I now need to do a 90 minute session at 80% of MHR tomorrow to make the cut for this week. Can I do it? Yeah, I can. Am I going to struggle to do it in the gym? Maybe - I'll have to keep an eye on my average and keep it above 150 - not a hassle if I just row & cycle, but a challenge if I do anything else except HIIT stuff like burpees and aggressive weights trainign and running. Will I be dead afterwards? Probably. But that's also part of the fun. Pushing myself. Testing it. If I don't get there, well then meh. I won't have gotten there. But I'll try my darndest to make it work...
  3. EXACTLY. That's the end goal, anyway. To track the direct correlation between increased activity and lower claims. Because those that track their activity are generally more aware of their health, and take more preventative / screening measures to ensure that their health is best preserved. It also opens up other potential changes and savings on all manner of products, if this can finally be proven. Think of it - which better company to test the data? 200,000 to 300,000 memberships, tracking life claims, disability claims, health claims etc and plotting activity / smoking / etc data along with it - it's an actuary's wet dream.
  4. I do... The problem is that it's for a physical product, which you are using on a daily basis. You still own it, you are still paying for it, and you went into it knowing that you would be liable for XYZ if you didn't meet the goals. It's almost a harmonious relationship, without actually being one. So yeah - you can cancel, but you're going to pay because you still decided to buy the thing. CPA still covers this and you won't get your cash back entirely. There's fair devaluation of the item, costs affiliated with re-selling and so on. May as well just sell it.
  5. In that case, I apologise. If you yourself were not doing it, then agreed you are not part of the problem. I post an awful lot here, as you know - so forgive me for not remembering that you're a fellow F3 user. Personally, far prefer mine to the iWatch. Look - I get that people are frustrated, but in most cases it's righteous indignation. People who haven't got the watch just complaining because they think they have a right to dictate how a company structures their points on the wellness program. People who have no need to complain, but feel they are entitled to ços they now can't get their smoothies because OMG it's "so hard now" The guys who were doing it to get fit, like Thor's Mrs - those are the people I feel have been disadvantaged, and who are continuing to be disadvantaged not by Discovery, but by people who jip the system. Because what happens when the system is jipped, and by so many? It's changed to reflect that. To reduce the possibility of jippoism. Also - the guys who have the watch and aren't able to meet the goals anymore - again. Don't blame Disco for changing them. Blame the retards who faked exercise data and steps and tagged their fitbits to their dogs - we have clients who actually admitted doing just that. No joke. It'd be hilarious if it just wasn't so sad. So yeah - sorry for the ramble, and sorry for targeting you when you yourself weren't doing it. Please stop telling people how to circumvent the system (if you are) - it's just making it worse for the people who are doing it legitimately as it corrupts the data.
  6. Given that the contract itself has nothing to do with the cash back portion (subsidy) goals, and only has to do with the 2 year no interest loan arrangement, and only details what % they will debit you for each level of engagement, it'd have to be a change in the levels of engagement ie: A change in the matrix shown on page 2 of the following doc: https://www.discovery.co.za/discovery_coza/web/linked_content/pdfs/vitality/apple_watch/vitality_active_rewards_apple_watch_benefit_guide.pdf A change in the metrics for the goals does not impinge on the validity of the contract, but I suspect one could have a good argument if they changed the soft cap of 1,200 points per week. It still wouldn't affect the contract, as the metrics are not stipulated therein and the t's and c's of the Vitality Active Rewards state that the goals will move with more data. But as you edited (darn you) there would probably have to be a revised offer. At no point in the contract are the metrics / goals discussed. It's just X goals per month & X discount if you meet those goals, and various other cancellation / penalties for non compliance etc. EDIT: Your last point - agreed. My approach would have been different, but I understand why they changed them so drastically.
  7. Also - the weekly points requirement there is 9 points. That's 1 visit to gym or 1 60 min effort at 600kcal per hour or 60% of MHR. If you're on Gold or Diamond, you don't have to do anything - you just get a free drink every week. The points system here is far more advanced, and whilst I agree that it should be better tiered to reflect the longer times and lower HR's the longer you go, it's due to direct manipulation and falsification of data that the metrics have been moved this far from what they were initially.
  8. No, YOU should have done your homework before buying into something which was at all times sold as a behavioural analytics product, SUBJECT TO CHANGE. You, and the others following your lead, are railing against disco for their change. Yet in order to get your points you are doing EXACTLY the thing that forced them into the change in the first place. As if their change of the metrics somehow justifies your falsification of efforts. It doesn't. It's not a moral "high ground" either - it's simple ethics. You feel as if Discovery's changing the goalposts (which, btw - they always said they were going to do) somehow makes your moral failings okay. It doesn't. It is also only detrimental from a financial standpoint to those who bought watches. People who should have read the terms and conditions attached to the watch subsidy, and didn't realise that Disco will only subsidise the payment if you got to goals which they set and were contractually able to alter as more info came in. And guess what? People like you, who jippo the system, are the reason that the metrics have changed. You are part of the problem.
  9. That's not the point. She didn't do it. You did. Therefore, you're still cheating the system if you're giving your workouts to someone else. All the other workarounds - tapiriik etc - were to enable you to upload / record activities that you have ACTUALLY DONE.
  10. Except that the 2nd option is actually the precise reason they removedo Strava etc. So no. Don't. And on the first one, you've still done the exercise.
  11. Shaper, please read my post in its entirety and not just the parts you want to read. I said quite clearly that cropping or shortening rides is NOT cheating, as you have still done it. Therefore it is still clean data as it represents actual work done. As for the gym swipers, until you can prove they actually worked you can't do anything. That data certainly isn't clean I will admit, but then they can also control for that in their stats by removing it completely
  12. Oh. I'd also love to have a seat at the vitality development table when it comes to this. Just to see what the thought processes and ideas are...
  13. Absolutely. I think their now is at reset status. Reversion to something that rules out cheating (cropping workouts isn't cheating - you still did 80% plus for 30 min etc) but also allows clean data and a spot from which to lower the requirements or move other metrics in. Remember as well... as of now they only have 28 days of data. From Tuesday they'll finally have a full month of rewards and data on the newer version. It took them 2 months of data to determine that the goals were too low. Then another month before the new ones were phased in. I predict we will have a slight change in June / July.
  14. Uni, I've been giving this some thought lately, and honestly I don't think they're ever going to lose, even when looking at this in isolation - ie just the watch and smoothies, not gym savings or anything else. Consider a single member, at R 200 per month for Vitality. Consider that in order for them to start making a loss, the client MUST hit all their targets, every week, and claim 2 smoothies / coffees each and every week. Smoothie is the more expensive option, so let's take that as an example. R45 per smoothie is the most expensive option. So that's R 360 per month for smoothies, and R 200 per month for the watch. R 560 per month for both options. That's the equivalent of just less than 3 memberships "reward" for one payment. Previous figures estimate that the overall level of "active" Vitality members (ie Gold / Silver) was in the region of 15-20%. That is, 80% are not engaging. At all. That means that for every one person who is using it properly, 4 aren't. Now that the Active Rewards has come through, they've seen an approximate 30% increase in overall activity. Let's even increase that by 50% - taking that 1 in 5 to 1.5 in 5 (20% to 30%). Let's apply that to the numbers above. From R 560 spend (by Discovery for a fully engaged individual) per R 1,000 contributions To R 840 spend (50% increase) per R 1,000 contributions. Now, I know that this is by no means accurate, as there are FAR more members not using any of the benefits than I've supposed above, and there are hectic cross subsidisations & savings in place across the board (savings on life policy payouts & reductions in lapse rate & health claims) but the above just shows that even with a 50% increase in "engagement" and a full utilisation of the benefit of the watch and smoothies, the Vitality program still pays for itself. Factor in the rest of the benefits and the other cross subsidisations, and it's even more profitable. I cannot stress how much this actually saves them on an annual basis. Client retention alone is worth FAR more from a profitability standpoint, not to mention the claims reductions. Fact of the matter is - a few smoothies and watch premiums are not going to bother them one single bit. People abusing the system, however, does worry them. It's a behavioural analytics thing for them, and they want the data to be as clean and reliable as possible. That necessitates a dramatic shift from the initial guidelines, which - to be frank - were laughably simple to manipulate. It WILL change in the future, of that I have no doubt. Was it a shift too far from the initial goals? Yes, but the more I think about it the more I think it was a deliberate action. To get as far away from the manipulators as possible, and actually get some clean data from which to build the goals up from again.
  15. LOL. Give me some of that, please... And yeah, it's an absolutely stunning spot, that
  16. For a little guy, you have an amazing amount of completely useless info inside your head, you know that?! Take it as a compliment... I have people tell me the same thing, only they relate it to the size of my skull...
  17. well there you go. In order to hit the 70% min target to get to "moderate" you need to average 131bpm or higher, and to hit the 80% target for vigorous you need to hit an avg of 150bpm or higher Otherwise it'll record nothing
  18. Put it this way. I had to put the saddle all the way down for my lightie when we got it (he was very small for his age) and the reach was absolutely fine
  19. Well, not sure. Even with "pacing myself" I can hit 80% with ease. Btw. This week is a bust. Haven't had a single session yet due to the squash thing. Tonight will be my first since last Friday
  20. Awesome. Be prepared to feel as if you SUCK for at least 5 to 10 rides...
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