Avid Bleed Kit

[Rydogg]

sorry to burst your bubble, but check out this CWC deal

a pro avid bleed kit for R340

 

 

Contents are EXACTLY the same!!!

[Capricorn]

The Dot and moisture (Water) actually do mix and stay mixed it doesn't separate out at all over time. It's a very strange characteristic

 

it forms something called an emulsion (suspension of immiscible liquids), much like milk, which is also another type of colloid. In milk, the bulk fluid is water with a suspension of fat molecules and particles. Like oil, the fat collects at the top if u leave it long enough and you get to stick your finger in and steal the cream..

 

In the brake line 'suspension', the bulk fluid is oil and the suspended immiscible is water because it's in such small quantities.

[ichnusa]

Contents are EXACTLY the same!!!

 

 

No, the syringes are better quality plastic, better o-ring seals (with spare rings), ergonomic handles and the there are better quality adapters...

 

And can be used for Elixer, Code and Juicy brakes.

 

Have a closer look

Edited May 6, 2011 by ichnusa

[Tumbleweed]

The Dot and moisture (Water) actually do mix and stay mixed it doesn't separate out at all over time. It's a very strange characteristic

 

Weird, but hey, you learn something new every day. Shot for the input...

[lloydkayak]

After removing the wrong screw last night and ending up with brake fluid everywhere I am having to do an emergency bleed after work so that I can ride the Dirtmax ride in Parys tomorrow morning.

 

I did some research (cant get the kit out here easily at all) and bought the following :

 

- 200ml Dot 4 fluid

- 2 x 20ml Syringes

- Clear Plastic Hose and O rings

- 2 x Micro Sprayer Sprinkler Head

 

All of the above cost R35... the sprinkler heads are like the ones as shown and they have a little 5mm plastic nipples attached to the bottom of the sprinkler... Hopefully this will work

 

Edited May 6, 2011 by lloydkayak

[Mecnic]

Let us know if it works

[TNT1]

What ya do is fill a syringe with brake fluid, and inject from the calliper...

[Johan Bornman]

DOT 3 and 4, and DOT 5 are completely different fluids.

 

DOT 3 and 4 absorb water from the atmosphere and it remains suspended inside the fluid in solution. It however remains water even when insuspension.

 

DOT 5 is made from a synthetic silicone and it also absorbs water readily, but the water precipitates out of this solution and settles at the lowest point - the water being the heaviest and not soluable in the DOT fluid.

 

The effect is vastly different too. Although the boiling point of DOT 5 is a bit higher than DOT 3/4, the water tends to settle next to the pistons where it can boil rather quickly.

 

In DOT 3/4, the water is everywhere and the entire concoction has to reach boiling point before it has adverse effects.

 

The long-term effects of both fluids in their contaminated state are also different. With DOT 5, the water damage tends to be in the calliper (lowest point), where with DOT 3/4, the damage is everytwhere

 

The damage in steel components such as cars and motorbikes is easily visible and felt in the pocket. The various steel pistons become pitted to a point where they leak past the seals.

 

In bikes where the castings are all aluminium and pistons plastic and/or bakelite (nowadays called phenolic resin), the damage is mostly to the alu casting and the phenol pistons which become rough.

 

Compared to oil-based systems (Shimano, Magura etc), DOT brakes are from the ark.

 

Oil isn't used in cars 'cuase I think the lower boiling point of oil is an issue. In cross-country bikes very few pople boil their brakes. Those who do, have a perfect excuse to buy new XTR ICE-technology brakes with cooling fins and other Chatsworth-like go-fast additions.

[The Drongo]

DOT 3 and 4, and DOT 5 are completely different fluids.

 

DOT 3 and 4 absorb water from the atmosphere and it remains suspended inside the fluid in solution. It however remains water even when insuspension.

 

DOT 5 is made from a synthetic silicone and it also absorbs water readily, but the water precipitates out of this solution and settles at the lowest point - the water being the heaviest and not soluable in the DOT fluid.

 

The effect is vastly different too. Although the boiling point of DOT 5 is a bit higher than DOT 3/4, the water tends to settle next to the pistons where it can boil rather quickly.

 

In DOT 3/4, the water is everywhere and the entire concoction has to reach boiling point before it has adverse effects.

 

The long-term effects of both fluids in their contaminated state are also different. With DOT 5, the water damage tends to be in the calliper (lowest point), where with DOT 3/4, the damage is everytwhere

 

The damage in steel components such as cars and motorbikes is easily visible and felt in the pocket. The various steel pistons become pitted to a point where they leak past the seals.

 

In bikes where the castings are all aluminium and pistons plastic and/or bakelite (nowadays called phenolic resin), the damage is mostly to the alu casting and the phenol pistons which become rough.

 

Compared to oil-based systems (Shimano, Magura etc), DOT brakes are from the ark.

 

Oil isn't used in cars 'cuase I think the lower boiling point of oil is an issue. In cross-country bikes very few pople boil their brakes. Those who do, have a perfect excuse to buy new XTR ICE-technology brakes with cooling fins and other Chatsworth-like go-fast additions.

 

Concur:

 

Ran DOT4 in Avids with better effect than the stated DOT5

 

DOT5 damages the seals around the pistons. They either seize to the piston or crack up.

 

DOT4 is less damaging. For general XC, DOT4 is good (140-160mm rotors). For DH, hard braking ....hmmm....get SAINTS.

[The Drongo]

After removing the wrong screw last night and ending up with brake fluid everywhere I am having to do an emergency bleed after work so that I can ride the Dirtmax ride in Parys tomorrow morning.

 

I did some research (cant get the kit out here easily at all) and bought the following :

 

- 200ml Dot 4 fluid

- 2 x 20ml Syringes

- Clear Plastic Hose and O rings

- 2 x Micro Sprayer Sprinkler Head

 

All of the above cost R35... the sprinkler heads are like the ones as shown and they have a little 5mm plastic nipples attached to the bottom of the sprinkler... Hopefully this will work

 

 

EISH!

 

Lloyd. Q? No 1. Have you downloaded the AVID Bleed Guide?

You are going to see that those little red 'clips' inline on the bleed port tubes are a vital component.

They are there to lock the hose so that the fluid can be purged of air by pressurising the syringe. When you pull the syringe plunger out with the clamps locked off, you will see a million bubbles form before your eyes. These must rise toward the needle point of the syringe. Then this air has to be released by uncliping. Re-clip and repeat the sequence a few times before very few bubbles are present.

They are then also used to lock off the syringe from the caliper/lever during bleeding.

 

Good luck. Remember. DOT fluid eats stuff. Starting with paint.

[Johan Bornman]

Just a word on those millions of tiny bubbles you see when you use an Avid bleed kit in the "pull" stage. Those bublles are not really air - well, sometimes there is air in there as well but mostly not - it is cavitation.

 

The minute you release the pluger and it shoots back, the bubbles disappear like magic.

 

Cavitation is a long story, but basically if you reduce the air pressure, a fluid's boilin point lowers. If you reduce the pressure dramatically, like behind a boat's propellor, behind a shock's piston, at a pump's impeller or inside a syringe of fluid being pulledm you'll see bubbles. They aren't air, but vapour of whatever fluid you're working with. In this case, brake fluid vapour.

 

Cavitation is fascinating look it up on Google and find some videos of cavitating fluid.

 

I really think the Avid instructions are misleading.

[Cassie]

To perhaps add an answer to Slowbee's question of how water gets into an apparently sealed system...I might also be thta the water enters the brakefluid when it is still in the bottle...i.e letting it stand open on the bench.../shelflife etc.t ec.

 

Then the water was introduced from the start...just a thought?

 

 

Great post this - with some insightful replies!!

[lloydkayak]

I have attached a pic of how the "kit" came out in the end...

 

My first issue was the O-rings were too big and I quickly went back to the hardware store to buy smaller ones and replacement sprinkler nipples as I broke one trying to "make a plan" without the orings...

 

Next and main issue was what to use to create an airtight seal between the hose and the syringe and nipple, cable ties do not work. In a pinch I used thin wire twisted tight but am told that there are proper small little hose clamps one can buy which would have been a big help.

 

After those issues I am happy with how it worked. The nipples screw in perfectly. I eventually managed to bleed the brakes properly and theyworked as usual for my ride in the morning.

 

I will post more pics once I refine the kit

[lloydkayak]

Also, having watched the "air being pulled out of suspension" Johan is correct in saying it is cavitation (fluid suddenly exposed to a negative pressure that causes the water to "boil" out. It is a huge problems in hydraulic design of pumps and eats impellors. I wouldn't think the pulling back on the plunger really makes that much of a difference.

Bleeding the air out of the caliper and lever however is crucial (I found this out the hard way)