Action Photo - Rip Off???

[Griffin]

Ohhh...remind me to read the next page of comments before replying. (Thats only a figure of speach..please dont really remind me).

 

@ Cycho

 

Personally I think you are one of the most taleted photographers out there. AP could learn a few things from you...and I could learn a LOT! As you say, shooting large scale is very intimidating and everyone expects that you get the perfect shot of them. I am sure you have had the same comments as I have had i.e. "Did you get a pic of me ?", "When will the pics be up?", "Why wernt you there when I .."

The quality vs quantity vs price principle on photography is the same as the weight vs price vs strength principle in a frame. We all try strike a balance but very seldom find all 3 in 1.

Its should be (and I say should because its a elusive principle) each and every photographers of self worth and pride that guides them to get the best possible shot. With AP (or who ever else it may be) contracting multiple photographers, this principle does fall away to an extent though. After all, the photgraphers name is not mentioned on the image...so there is less of a responsibilty to remain selective in the quality of the shot.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Griffin

[GLuvsMtb]

Ok, so as someone that shoots professionally part time, here's my 3 cents

 

1 - What is required to shoot large scale scares the living daylights out of me, and now will only do so with hesitation, but tend to avoid it due to time vs reward. Shooting an entire event from the event perspective tends to yield between 100 and 200 good (usuable) images (if trying to be at all creative) - so to try keep 15 000 odd people happy is an extreme challenge.

 

2 - this being said, due to a shortage of good photographers on the sports side of things, sometimes these companies desperately seach for individuals willing to work for non-professional rates. So companies like action photo really need to look at who is shooting for them (AND processing the images!) - maybe they would benefit in all ways by being more selective of their photographers / staff that they hire? Because at the end of the day, the argument is not really about price - its about quality of product!

 

3 - @ Morewood Mad - there are far more good photographers out there besides the ones you mention. There are constantly new names popping up and I really have to keep on top of my game and constantly improving just to build some kinda reputation (and believe me it is not easy no matter how good your images are!). Hopefully some would consider me even having small toe into the category that guys like Kelvin, Jacques and others are in (even a toe in that category is a complement amongst some that are the top in the world!)!

 

So my views - use or lose as u wish

Thanks Cycho. Didn't mean to offend anyone, but the names mentioned are the ones that I've had the pleasure of dealing with (lots that I had the displeasure of dealing with, but lets not be too critical).

Some on here moans at paying R50 for a picture, regardless of the quality, others are saying that the bundle price is not reasonable. I ordered my photos and while they are nowhere nearly as good as the ones received at the Oak Valley 24 hours earlier this year, I still enjoy them for the memories they yield.

Riders often ask what the difference is between the Epic and other events. This is one of them. Whether you ride pro or whether you came in last that day, the photographers treat you with the same respect and you get the same quality photos as the guys in the front.

Perhaps San2C can invest in helping some good "development" photographers make it through the ranks as well. I'm sure that the likes of Trautman, Marais (and yourself) would be willing to take an eager youngster under your wings and show them the tricks of the trade.

[Shebeen]

2 issues at play here.

 

quality of photos

quality/ease of purchase

 

You would think the first was the subjective issue here, but that's actually more black and white!

 

Maybe i just don't do enough races anymore, but i've yet to find an outfit that makes me want to buy my photos. photobay is the leader in my mind on this, but a certain crowd from stellenbosch scared me off a few years ago when i just gave up continually trying to buy the awesome shots they took of me.

 

 

i think many of us have been saying for years that actionphotos are absolutely useless, but damn they are durable so must be somehow doing something right. I can remember the old business model of printing EVERYONE's argus photos and mailing them with an invoice or a return envelope.

[ChrisH]

At Photobay we have spent 2 years trying to make a model for event photography that balances quality images and making a decent living out of it. We have a website with on-line payment gateway and the ability to download immediately after payment. We coupled that with a paranoia about giving great customer service and I honestly believe the operation is slick and works well.

 

A lot of people told me when we started the business that I was wasting my time, but I was convinced otherwise. It turns out that they were right. It's a mugs game for sure. The reality is that most riders aren't really interested in anything other than Facebook profile pictures and those they are happy to steal even though they have our watermark on them.

 

The only way that you can possibly make a decent living out of it, is to shoot niche events with hordes of competitors, use local students to take the images and produce thousands of photos. Low overheads, massive stock and a captive audience is the key.

 

The business model that does work for us, is to shoot the event for the organisers and event sponsors, have them pay you for the shoot and as a by-product sell individual images to the athletes.

 

AMA Rider took a massive leap of faith and paid us for the RE-CM 100 miler, and all images were provided free to the riders. Meurant was convinced that this was the way to go and he was 100% correct. Over 800 images were downloaded in a week. Compare that to a normal MTB race where we may sell 20 photos, or for triathlon possibly 50 (triathletes are the best customers by far). So everyone scored, but make no mistake we aren't getting rich out of it.

 

The next big AMA Rider race is the Burger MTB race, and because of the scale of the event they are using Action Photo. Photobay just doesn't have the resources to run that kind of production line and personally I would find it soul destroying. A bit like working as a bank teller at ABSA.

[covie]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Action Photo are ripping us off ?

They want R47.70 for a digital pic - bought the pics from the German crowd at Epic and thought that was alot until checking that for R600 you got over 100 brilliant pics - so R6.00 vs R47.00 and you cannot even compare the quality

 

Well oakpics are definitly comming to the party, they now work it on you pay them R90bucks get a sticker on your race board, and they will send you a cd with a minimum of 15 pics. All bought and paid for pre race, they just need to work on their delivery times.

[Hairy]

At Photobay we have spent 2 years trying to make a model for event photography that balances quality images and making a decent living out of it. We have a website with on-line payment gateway and the ability to download immediately after payment. We coupled that with a paranoia about giving great customer service and I honestly believe the operation is slick and works well.

 

A lot of people told me when we started the business that I was wasting my time, but I was convinced otherwise. It turns out that they were right. It's a mugs game for sure. The reality is that most riders aren't really interested in anything other than Facebook profile pictures and those they are happy to steal even though they have our watermark on them.

 

The only way that you can possibly make a decent living out of it, is to shoot niche events with hordes of competitors, use local students to take the images and produce thousands of photos. Low overheads, massive stock and a captive audience is the key.

 

The business model that does work for us, is to shoot the event for the organisers and event sponsors, have them pay you for the shoot and as a by-product sell individual images to the athletes.

 

AMA Rider took a massive leap of faith and paid us for the RE-CM 100 miler, and all images were provided free to the riders. Meurant was convinced that this was the way to go and he was 100% correct. Over 800 images were downloaded in a week. Compare that to a normal MTB race where we may sell 20 photos, or for triathlon possibly 50 (triathletes are the best customers by far). So everyone scored, but make no mistake we aren't getting rich out of it.

 

The next big AMA Rider race is the Burger MTB race, and because of the scale of the event they are using Action Photo. Photobay just doesn't have the resources to run that kind of production line and personally I would find it soul destroying. A bit like working as a bank teller at ABSA.

 

There are still pics from the OV 24hr I need to order .....

 

What AMA is doing with the pics are really great as it should I am sure promote the event in a far more passive manner that I am sure would be very effective in the long term.

 

You guys still take excellent pics and I am glad you are getting the recognition for this.

[ChrisH]

Well oakpics are definitly comming to the party, they now work it on you pay them R90bucks get a sticker on your race board, and they will send you a cd with a minimum of 15 pics. All bought and paid for pre race, they just need to work on their delivery times.

 

So they are selling photos for a maximum of R6:00 each and still have to buy a CD, stick it in an envelope and pay to post it. Ouch.

[GLuvsMtb]

At Photobay we have spent 2 years trying to make a model for event photography that balances quality images and making a decent living out of it. We have a website with on-line payment gateway and the ability to download immediately after payment. We coupled that with a paranoia about giving great customer service and I honestly believe the operation is slick and works well.

 

A lot of people told me when we started the business that I was wasting my time, but I was convinced otherwise. It turns out that they were right. It's a mugs game for sure. The reality is that most riders aren't really interested in anything other than Facebook profile pictures and those they are happy to steal even though they have our watermark on them.

 

The only way that you can possibly make a decent living out of it, is to shoot niche events with hordes of competitors, use local students to take the images and produce thousands of photos. Low overheads, massive stock and a captive audience is the key.

 

The business model that does work for us, is to shoot the event for the organisers and event sponsors, have them pay you for the shoot and as a by-product sell individual images to the athletes.

 

AMA Rider took a massive leap of faith and paid us for the RE-CM 100 miler, and all images were provided free to the riders. Meurant was convinced that this was the way to go and he was 100% correct. Over 800 images were downloaded in a week. Compare that to a normal MTB race where we may sell 20 photos, or for triathlon possibly 50 (triathletes are the best customers by far). So everyone scored, but make no mistake we aren't getting rich out of it.

 

The next big AMA Rider race is the Burger MTB race, and because of the scale of the event they are using Action Photo. Photobay just doesn't have the resources to run that kind of production line and personally I would find it soul destroying. A bit like working as a bank teller at ABSA.

Its definately a value - add to me as a rider to get those good-quality shots for my study at home and its great that the orginisers are recognising the value-add (more so than most goodie bags these days). It also gives them an opportunity to brand something that people seem to distribute quite freely (as you mentioned, the photos were on facebook within minutes of downloads being available).

I really hope that you can make a success out of this and please dont try to replicate the Actionhoto model. Its got its place and your model cannot be applied to a race with 1500 riders per day.

[Danger Dassie]

Chris you old pirate ....

[ChrisH]

Chris you old pirate ....

Arrrrrr.