Vuelta a Espana 2012: 18 August - 09 September

[Christie]

What do you think of the UCI's bid to try shorten it to a two-week race?

They should rather shorten the TDF with 1 week by removing the sprint and transition stages.

[nochain]

I read that this is the toughest Vuelta ever...

 

It clearly shows with all the climbing and the temperatures as well.

 

Geez, those riders are tough.

 

What makes a the racing hard is not really the route but the quality of the riders in the race. The avg speed at which they race day in day out is what hammers the riders and make them suffer more in the 3rd week.

Most of these climbs that they ride this year have been used before many times and in roughly the same format.

You will find the more riders want to win a race and the more teams send their best line up the faster it gets and the harder it is to recover(everybody want their riders in front scenario). The cumulated fatigue factor is what gets to them.

In the past riders liked doing this race because they spend lots of time riding at a very easy pace and then just race hard on the final climb, so really they don't suffer as much.

Many riders have talked about this as one off the things that have changed over the last couple of years to make the Giro and the Vuelta harder.

 

I must say I have really enjoyed the last 4 days of racing, Even Fabien commented on Thursday's stage as being one of the hardest....mainly because they were hoping for an "off day" on the bike.

 

Would love to see what tactics Sky can come up with now to take back the lead...they will have to try something high risk that is for sure because there are really only 2 more stages where the sprinter team won't be doing the controlling!

Go Froom!!!!!!!!!

[nochain]

I read that this is the toughest Vuelta ever...

 

It clearly shows with all the climbing and the temperatures as well.

 

Geez, those riders are tough.

 

What makes a the racing hard is not really the route but the quality of the riders in the race. The avg speed at which they race day in day out is what hammers the riders and make them suffer more in the 3rd week.

Most of these climbs that they ride this year have been used before many times and in roughly the same format.

You will find the more riders want to win a race and the more teams send their best line up the faster it gets and the harder it is to recover(everybody want their riders in front scenario). The cumulated fatigue factor is what gets to them.

In the past riders liked doing this race because they spend lots of time riding at a very easy pace and then just race hard on the final climb, so really they don't suffer as much.

Many riders have talked about this as one off the things that have changed over the last couple of years to make the Giro and the Vuelta harder.

 

I must say I have really enjoyed the last 4 days of racing, Even Fabien commented on Thursday's stage as being one of the hardest....mainly because they were hoping for an "off day" on the bike.

 

Would love to see what tactics Sky can come up with now to take back the lead...they will have to try something high risk that is for sure because there are really only 2 more stages where the sprinter team won't be doing the controlling!

Go Froom!!!!!!!!!

[TNT1]

 

 

Would love to see what tactics Sky can come up with now to take back the lead...they will have to try something high risk that is for sure because there are really only 2 more stages where the sprinter team won't be doing the controlling!

Go Froom!!!!!!!!!

 

Looks like they have givven Froome the green light to defend his podium and go for the win on his won, seeing as he put time into wiggins yesterday.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Looks like they have givven Froome the green light to defend his podium and go for the win on his won, seeing as he put time into wiggins yesterday.

 

Yeah, I wondered if he (Froome) could have held onto Cobo were he given the chance to go?.

 

I dont think so, he may have limited the loss a bit but it looked like Cobo was the best there yesterday.

 

....but,....I guess we will never know.

[TNT1]

Yeah, I wondered if he (Froome) could have held onto Cobo were he given the chance to go?.

 

I dont think so, he may have limited the loss a bit but it looked like Cobo was the best there yesterday.

 

....but,....I guess we will never know.

 

From reading the report, it looked like Froome, Poels and Menchov closed on Cobo ever so slightly once they dropped Wiggins. Hard to tell from the report, cause the camera bike with Wiggin's group fell over just as he was dropped, but he was more than a minute at that stage, and Froome, Poels and Menchov finished 48secs behind Cobo, so it appears they closed on him, with Froome leading the charge.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

 

In the past riders liked doing this race because they spend lots of time riding at a very easy pace and then just race hard on the final climb, so really they don't suffer as much.

Many riders have talked about this as one off the things that have changed over the last couple of years to make the Giro and the Vuelta harder.

 

I must say I have really enjoyed the last 4 days of racing, Even Fabien commented on Thursday's stage as being one of the hardest....mainly because they were hoping for an "off day" on the bike.

 

Yeah, Armstrong was fond of saying the tour is much faster, but, like a lot of things he said back then, are not relevant now, certainly the Giro is a much harder race than the tour, unashamedly so in fact, and I think back then many more riders were doped to the gills, they had more to gain at the tour so sure, maybe in his day it was faster, but today I dont think its the same. If one looks at like for like stages on all three grand tours the speeds are very similar now.

 

Like Wiggins said, "that was back in those days, things have changed."

[nochain]

Yeah, Armstrong was fond of saying the tour is much faster, but, like a lot of things he said back then, are not relevant now, certainly the Giro is a much harder race than the tour, unashamedly so in fact, and I think back then many more riders were doped to the gills, they had more to gain at the tour so sure, maybe in his day it was faster, but today I dont think its the same. If one looks at like for like stages on all three grand tours the speeds are very similar now.

 

Like Wiggins said, "that was back in those days, things have changed."

Not really referring to that far back...Evans himself was quoted 2 years ago as to how the speed in the Giro has improved that year and that it makes it much harder now than it was before. But these type off commends have been made by many riders over the last 3 years more so especially about the Vuelta were they described days as off days more often than in the other tours. This you can also see in the power files of riders.

 

But the point is really that the course has very little effect on how hard a tour is for riders. If the bunch climbs 3 mountains in 1 day and decide to ride 2 of the 3 on tempo and riders like cancellara sets the pace that really just is a 60% effort for most riders in terms of power or Intensity factor...so not really different from riding in the wind on a flat stage, or say doing a circuit race. It all boils down to the quality of the riders and the effort off the field on a given day or over a period of several days.

Example the stage on Thursday was not really a mountain stage but was described as one of the hardest to the riders….not the public’s idea of a tough stage but the riders suffered like hell because the race was “out of control”. .everybody wanted to be in the front group and that made the chase so much harder. They could never really “soft peddle” during the stage.

 

The mountains has always been there and that will not change the only thing that change is the riders effort in the race...more strong teams that send more of their top riders.

['Dale]

What makes a the racing hard is not really the route but the quality of the riders in the race. The avg speed at which they race day in day out is what hammers the riders and make them suffer more in the 3rd week.

Most of these climbs that they ride this year have been used before many times and in roughly the same format.

You will find the more riders want to win a race and the more teams send their best line up the faster it gets and the harder it is to recover(everybody want their riders in front scenario). The cumulated fatigue factor is what gets to them.

In the past riders liked doing this race because they spend lots of time riding at a very easy pace and then just race hard on the final climb, so really they don't suffer as much.

Many riders have talked about this as one off the things that have changed over the last couple of years to make the Giro and the Vuelta harder.

!

Go Froom!!!!!!!!!

 

Boonen spoke about the increase in summit finishes and decrease in sprint finishes, not power sprint finishes, and he wishes that it can change.

 

And, I understand your point, no chain.

 

There was no doping found in the final results of the TdF.

No boosting of performance can also add to the difficulty level, surely.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I hear Nibali said he had a hunger flat on Saturday when he lost so much time and couldn't recover for Sunday, says he cant blame anyone but himself.

[nickc]

I hear Nibali said he had a hunger flat on Saturday when he lost so much time and couldn't recover for Sunday, says he cant blame anyone but himself.

 

Damn - a silly mistake costs him the Vuelta.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Damn - a silly mistake costs him the Vuelta.

 

Yeah, we tend to think Pro's dont make mistakes, but I guess they are just as human as the rest of us.

[nochain]

Boonen spoke about the increase in summit finishes and decrease in sprint finishes, not power sprint finishes, and he wishes that it can change.

 

And, I understand your point, no chain.

 

There was no doping found in the final results of the TdF.

No boosting of performance can also add to the difficulty level, surely.

Yes it is all about recovery....the harder they ride every day the more they struggle to recover....doping helps a lot with the recovery so maybe that also makes it harder for them.

 

That’s why I love the 7 to 10 day tour...it's an all-out effort and they don't really have to keep anything back so the racing is much more aggressive...

 

I was thinking about this climb from Sunday yesterday. I see the media describe it as the most difficult finish in all of cycling.

I get the part were the gears becomes a problem...so you can't maintain your normal cadence....but I think Cobo did not really have that problem...maybe for a km or so but the rest he had a normal leg speed I think.

 

The thing is...why would that climb be more difficult for these GC riders than say Alpde Heuz??

Say Conto against Andy going up Alp de Heuz fighting for the top step on the podium versus Wiggens against Cobo going up this climb.

 

In both cases the riders will have to go for 40min to an hour at 95% to 105% of threshold power. So does it really make a difference in terms of suffering?

100% of threshold for 50min to me feels the same no matter what the terrain looks like...

 

The riders that really suffer I think in a different way is the sprinters and bigger riders…the ones that don’t really have anything to gain from going up there in the first place…

[GrumpyOldGuy]

 

I was thinking about this climb from Sunday yesterday. I see the media describe it as the most difficult finish in all of cycling.

I get the part were the gears becomes a problem...so you can't maintain your normal cadence....but I think Cobo did not really have that problem...maybe for a km or so but the rest he had a normal leg speed I think.

 

 

Yeah, interesting, I think sometimes gears do play a part, Mollema got his gearing wrong 38/29 and was really in trouble, Cobo I hear used a 34/29 same as Nibali. Wiggins used a 36/29, so maybe gearing was a factor.

['Dale]

Yeah, interesting, I think sometimes gears do play a part, Mollema got his gearing wrong 38/29 and was really in trouble, Cobo I hear used a 34/29 same as Nibali. Wiggins used a 36/29, so maybe gearing was a factor.

I think it was like a 20 degree gradient or something... for quite a while.

 

Jeepers!!

[nochain]

Yeah, interesting, I think sometimes gears do play a part, Mollema got his gearing wrong 38/29 and was really in trouble, Cobo I hear used a 34/29 same as Nibali. Wiggins used a 36/29, so maybe gearing was a factor.

Yes I think Both Wiggens and Froome had the wrong gearing for that steep section...Cobo looked a lot better on that section than Wiggens.

Froome looked very bad when he was behind Wiggens on that section because I think the pace Wiggens was going made it hard for him to keep he's normal Rhythm.