Sit back and have a good........

[Willehond]

I would have a rule in place when entering for an event. Maybe Terms and Conditions whereby a rider sign's or selects a check box stating that they accept the Terms and Conditions.

A rule stating that any rider caught crossing the white line will be fined x amount. Hit them where it hurts most! For instance a fine of R500 every weekend would certainly hurt.

The only problem is' date=' monitoring all the riders in the different groups.

Think this would work?

 

[/quote']

 

Might work, but how about fining the club/sponsors?  If this is one of your riders, surely you have an obligation to cycling and your image to reprimand your members?  Clubs are WAY too silent on this issue

 

For unsponsored riders or those not belonging to a club, fine them or kick them out.

 

 

[ewep]

I agree with everything that was said.  I just think that Pantani is playing devils advocate at the moment.  Have seen how he rides.

[Windbreaker]

 

Windbreaker! I am not trying to "get out of the matter easily" as you so cutely imply. Let us remember that I am firstly and foremostly a cyclist ( a rather large and unfit one) and understand the dynamics. What is happening at events on a weekly basis is totally unacceptable. Do not for one minute kid yourself that this problem only exists amongst the racing groups!! NOT. This extends throughout the funrides. Having rolling road closure is only a partial solution' date=' because lets face it to have rolling road closure for the whole event is effectively full road closure. This I might add too the Cycle Tour nearly 18years to get in place.

What we need is self policing! Can I assume that you will now contact Steve Hayward and volunteer your services as a PPA marshall (they are in desperate need of more marshalls) to help us stamp out this problem. The kind of riding seen in the photgraphs at the top of Helshoogte is just not acceptable under any circumstance. I would certainly value your input on how PPA can ensure we catch as many of the culprits as possible. I like you and the many other cyclists out there would love to see this problem stamped out! It is after all the main reason we no longer have rides going over Consantia Nek from the Constantia side.

The more peer pressure we as riders exert on other riders combined with a strong approach from the likes of CSA and PPA the better the chances we have of eradicating this problem[/quote']Dave, I have a day job, I have commitments that I have undertaken at my level to build the sport. I have in the past offered to act as a PPA marshal but changed my mind. I will reconsider it when I see more effort at a fundamental level. That does not mean that I don't try to "police" in the C group!

 

What I am referring to, by example, is

a) YOU CANNOT HAVE RACE OFFICIALS MAKING STATEMENTS THAT RIDERS MUST USE THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT ABOUT CROSSING THE WHITE LINE.

 

b) You cannot disqualify riders for having a single race number on their back instead of the regulatory 2 but at the same race ignore evidence that others crossed the white line. That just is not consistent.

 

c) That corner at the top of Hels Hoogte is notorious and if you do a search you will see photographs of riders in the yellow line on the right at EVERY event. Here is a suggestion that you requested - simply place a cameraman & marshal on that corner and disqualify every rider that transgresses.

 

Basically, spend more money on safety & "policing" at the PPA events. It's not like we don't have fairly full coffers last time I heard.

 

 

ps. I didn't "cutely imply" anything - I clearly stated that you (as one of the leading cycling officials in this country) are not doing enough as an organisation. Once you take a tough, consistent albeit unpopular stance then those of us who support that stance can apply the peer pressure with more effect. You can see from this thread that trying to apply peer pressure without the unambiguous support of the officials (in actions not words) will not work.

 

[Pantani]

Just by the way, consider this scenario if you will...

 

The bunch is rolling along on a flat road, taking up all of the left side of the road. There is a guy riding 5 bikes off the front and over team radio he is told to attack. He considers the instruction and then concludes the following:

 

a) I can attack, but it would mean taking a wide berth to the opposite side of the road.

b) Ignore the instruction to attack because it violates every code in the safe cycling manual.

 

I'm sure we all know the sort of attack I'm describing where a rider shoots off to the opposite side of the road. It's a tactical maneuver which might also require the cyclist to stay on the opposite side of the road until he has cleared all other riders who might want to catch his wheel.

 

So, am I a villain for pointing out an obvious part of racing tactics that flies in the face of safe cycling?

 

[Willehond]

I also think so ewep, and I think he laso actually wants some action on this issue (he is shouting for it!), so maybe it is time the authorities AND cyclists take action.  Like I said, I think we have made some good strides towards it here in Cape Town.  White line crossing is down a lot, but we need more

[Windbreaker]

 

Just by the way' date=' consider this scenario if you will...

 

The bunch is rolling along on a flat road, taking up all of the left side of the road. There is a guy riding 5 bikes off the front and over team radio he is told to attack. He considers the instruction and then concludes the following:

 

a) I can attack, but it would mean taking a wide berth to the opposite side of the road.

b) Ignore the instruction to attack because it violates every code in the safe cycling manual.

 

I'm sure we all know the sort of attack I'm describing where a rider shoots off to the opposite side of the road. It's a tactical maneuver which might also require the cyclist to stay on the opposite side of the road until he has cleared all other riders who might want to catch his wheel.

 

So, am I a villain for pointing out an obvious part of racing tactics that flies in the face of safe cycling?

 

[/quote']c'mon pantani, you are starting to lose cred boet.

 

The answer is obvious

b) Ignore the instruction to attack because it violates every code in the safe cycling manual. "but also cause it is morally wrong and cause I could cause a serious/fatal accident if I do follow that stupid instruction!

 

 

[Brakkies Sport Fotos]

Willehond, I agree, when you are in club kit, or sponsewrs kit, you do have a responsibility towards them.

 

 

 

I'm sorry for ORCA, he did wrong and the Club (and I hope) send him a little e-mail warning him that he put the club in a bad light and hope that he next time keep in mind that he represent the club.

 

 

 

He was not the only Harmony guy doing the wrong, he was just the only one caught on a photo.

 

 

 

I remember that Jasper wrote in our weekly newsletter that Harmony cyclist must stay away from the Bottlary road, while the had the construction going.

 

 

 

So, the club is putting the word out, but you will find cyclist who knows whats right and whats wrong, but will still do what he like.

 

 

 

Thats why we will never become the "good guys" on the road.

 

 

 

Its time government get a bicycle license in place, force every bicycle on the road to be registered and annually licence fee.

 

 

 

If you than ride without that little piece of reg.thingy and get into a axcident, you will be responsible as a motorist will be who dont have a motor licence or one that was expire.

 

 

 

 

[Pantani]

 

 

c'mon pantani' date=' you are starting to lose cred boet.

 

The answer is obvious

b) Ignore the instruction to attack because it violates every code in the safe cycling manual. "but also cause it is morally wrong and cause I could cause a serious/fatal accident if I do follow that stupid instruction!

 

[/quote']

 

Well, to you and I who sit here behind our computers and debate these matters it's glaringly obvious, however at the "bleeding" edge of elite racing I don't believe that this scenario would be rationalised in the same manner....

Pantani2007-12-04 00:23:07

[DavidB]

More Popeye

 

Dit is wel 'n goeie idee maar die probleem wat ons het is dat daar nie van die ryers wat wil vir die "werk" volunteer! It is unfortunately so in many occasions that there are many ideas but no-one prepared to assist in implementing. Maybe we could set up a meeting with the PPA committee and parties interested in getting involved in sorting this out. Popeye give me a call at the Cycle Tour office later

[Windbreaker]

and that is the other flaw in your argument

 

The bleeding edge of cycling (apt because soon someone will be bleeding - to death) applies all the way down the groups. Just because the rest of us don't achieve the same times doesn't mean our efforts/decisions are in any way inferior. I have had to make the choice on many occasions (follow across / don't follow) and I've been dropped as a result. I say that tactics will actually improve as more people would also not follow and together we could form our own paceline to get back on (or not).

 

[hot stuff]

why don't they have motors bikes strategically positioned with camera man like in the TDF to move with the "racing groups" .

Why are the rules followed in the league races and there is always mention about disqualification if they cross the white line before the race starts. I have spoken a few times to the top ladies being Kelly T and Jane S who have been disqualified for crossing the white line. in the league rides you are all policed any way.

 

 

[AfreekduSoet]

pantani, you still missing it.

Safe cycling is not a rule book or some sort of manual, it is about having respect for your own well being and then also for those around you.

 

popeye, ek volenteer!!!  Wanneer kry ek my pepper spray?

[Jason]

DavidB... So 2 jaar gelede het ek 'n voorstel aan julle gestuur (en niks terug gehoor)

Maar dit was basies dat jy "RACING MARCHELLS" in die groepe het.

Die volunteers hoef dan nie langs die pad hoef te staan ' date=' maar self race in die groepe.

So gaan jy meer marchells kry. Hierdie ouens gaan natuurlik die regte "know how" kurses of seminaar moet bywoon om die reels en do's and don't leer.

maar hulle hoef nie hulle race op te gee, hulle is net besig met racing in die groepe.

Ek weet nie of jy League ouens sal kry wat dit sal wil doen, maar ek verseker jou jy sal genoeg kry in die alfabet groepe.

So, waarom kan dit nie werk?

Sorg net dat die KIT van hierdie ouens "bling" genoeg is, en jy het honderde marchells.[/quote']

I would hate to be a marshall in the Elite or VA group... You basically have to be stronger than the winner and go with every attack ... Btw what's Lance doing? But yeah a good idea Pops!

[Pantani]

It's almost laughable how much energy I have for this because I know that there are cyclists out there who race weekend in and weekend out, who if faced with these choices, would go for the gap. Why you might ask? I'll tell you their answer. "It's a race isn't it?"

 

You can call me a pariah, a villain of the peace, a devil's advocate, an imbecile. The fact remains that in order to eradicate this insidious habit we need to tackle some prominent people, teams as well as visiting the fundamentals of racing, and when racing becomes unsafe racing. I think this is going to upset a few of the purists...

 

[HomerSimpson]

More Popeye

 

Dit is wel 'n goeie idee maar die probleem wat ons het is dat daar nie van die ryers wat wil vir die "werk" volunteer! It is unfortunately so in many occasions that there are many ideas but no-one prepared to assist in implementing. Maybe we could set up a meeting with the PPA committee and parties interested in getting involved in sorting this out. Popeye give me a call at the Cycle Tour office later

 

I did suggest exactly that w.r.t the "racing marshals" for all funrides; we have a problem that most of the start marshals for PPA events end up riding at the back of the short ride.  So we went ahead and tried it (within the last three weeks), looked for volunteers via the weekly PPA e-mail to members, and also here on the hub.  The net result was exactly 5 volunteers initially (which is great, 5 is a darn sight better than none!), but it's not exactly as though we were inundated with offers...

[ewep]

 

It's almost laughable how much energy I have for this because I know that there are cyclists out there who race weekend in and weekend out' date=' who if faced with these choices, would go for the gap. Why you might ask? I'll tell you their answer. "It's a race isn't it?"

 

You can call me a pariah, a villain of the peace, a devil's advocate, an imbecile. The fact remains that in order to eradicate this insidious habit we need to tackle some prominent people, teams as well as visiting the fundamentals of racing, and when racing becomes unsafe racing. I think this is going to upset a few of the purists...

 

[/quote']

 

Hoor hoor