Jonkershoek - maintenance issues!

[covie]

Being a Stellies local, we pay our yearly subscriptions and ride Jonkershoek at least once a week. What is starting to irk me, is that it seems not much is being done with the monies received by MTO forrestry's to maintain the tracks! MTB is booming out of control and with access to riding spots either closing down or getting very expensive, more and more people( including the trail runners) are now using places like Jonkies, resulting in tracks being way over used! Canaries 1,2 and 3 have got so bad, it is now better to go up them then down!!! I suggest that MTO really start using monies gained frm us MTBers to make Jonkies a MTB paradise that it can be. Many more new tracks are required so as to spread the load. Come on guy's, let's get Jonkies back on track.

 

I dunno went down canaries this weekend and it was awesome, a little bit more technical due to some exposed rocks and ruts but still in good shape, besides with winter almost upon us i dont see much maintenance happening till winter sets in and the ground becomes more workable for maintenance.

 

Problem with jonkers is it has the potential to be so much more of a world class MTB destination than it is now, since it burned down a couple years ago taking most of the good single track with it, very little has been done to create anything new.

[Guest Omega Man]

Correct on the over use issue. Our trails are being over used. I suggest that fees at Jonkershoek and Tokai be doubled to reduce the volume by at least 50%. They will have the same revenue as now, meaning the repair work done will last twice as long.

 

 

Just upping the fees won't significantly drop the numbers IMO.

 

Unfortunately very little of the money we pay for trail useage seems to make its way back onto the mountain in the form of trail maintenance and repairs.

 

For me the real answer is to run Jonkers and Tokai as stand alone businesses. That way mountain bikers would be seen as an income stream and our needs catered to. The existing trail networks would be EXPANDED to attract mountain bikers.

 

Unfortunately this will not happen so we are stuck paying to ride as well as maintaining out own trails. It's a frankly ridiculous state of affairs in my opinion but it is what it is.

 

@ mtbsurferbrah. The reason for the focus being on the downhill trails of late has been outlined by Deon above. Also. I as a downhiller I have done maintenance on XC trails and DH trails. You should get involved with trail maintenance and not discriminate.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Omega Man

[(Deon)]

@ mtbsurferbrah. The reason for the focus being on the downhill trails of late has been outlined by Deon above. Also. I as a downhiller I have done maintenance on XC trails and DH trails. You should get involved with trail maintenance and not discriminate.

 

Ah, pray it is nothing like that David16v from some time back, he offered to build on XC tracks so many times and never pitched up, not once on three occasions (memory willing). But in true David style, he was quite a mouthpiece against work done on DH trails and got quite defiant at times too. Mtbsurfer, please put out minds at ease.. you are nothing like that right??

Edited March 8, 2012 by Pain or Shine

[GLuvsMtb]

Just upping the fees won't significantly drop the numbers IMO. Unfortunately very little of the money we pay for trail useage seems to make its way back onto the mountain in the form of trail maintenance and repairs. For me the real answer is to run Jonkers and Tokai as stand alone businesses. That way mountain bikers would be seen as an income stream and our needs catered to. Unfortunately this will not happen so we are stuck paying to ride as well as maintaining out own trails. It's a frankly ridiculous state of affairs in my opinion but it is what it is. @ mtbsurferbrah. The reason for the focus being on the downhill trails of late has been outlined by Deon above. Also. I as a downhiller have done maintenance on XC trails and DH trails. You should get involved with trail maintenance and not discriminate.

OK so to run it as a business the following needs to happen. 1. Get a private operator to lease the land. Note that this cannot be for exclusive use, as forestry makes way more from the pine plantations than what they would make from our sorry butts. 2. The operator and Forestry then need to establish a harvesting schedule for the plantations. No good spending money on trails and in 2 weeks the bull dozers destroy it. 3. The operator will have to pay for the salaries of the Cape Nature / Sanparks Staff that man the gates 4. The operator will have to secure the perimeter of the reserve or establish check points at the other entry points to the reserve to ensure that no one access the reserve illegally. 5. The operator will have to employ a trail manager and at least 3 labourers. If a trail manager earns 1/2 of what a green keeper earns at a golf estate, you're in for at least R200k for him/her and another R144k for the labour 6. Purchuse of maintenance equipment (1 bakkie, and other tools), call it another R250k 7. Purchase of materials, fuel and other consumables. 8. The operator will have to cover administrative expenses and need to make a profit to make it worth his while. Any business earning a GP of 10% would be worth considering Assume land use costs R800 000 per year (cheap if this was for farming), Salaries of 2 full time employees and 4 part time employees cost R240 000 per year (access control), assume salaries of trail building team to be R144 000, Equipment purchase is R50 000 (R250 000 written off over 5 years), materials, fuel and consumables is say R48 000. You now have R1 154 000 per year with no escallation in expenses. To generate a GP of 10% or better, you have to generate R1 269 400 per annum. Assume we have average 30 riders a day during the week and average 100 riders a day over weekends, you will have 18230 tickets sold a year (before you blast me, I have not factored bad weather into the equasion). The cost per ticket would then be R69.63 per rider. So before we accuse Forestry that we don't get anything for our money, consider that access alone would cost R43.88 per ticket, based on R800 000 land use fees. Even if the operator got the land for "free", at R25 a ticket he is barely surviving.

Edit - typo (I wrote too much here)

Edited March 8, 2012 by MorewoodMad

[Guest Omega Man]

According to the guys at the gate at Tokai 2000 riders enter per week. I like your logic. I think both Jonkers and Tokai are National parks so I don't think they'd be willing to lease the land.

 

It is a thought tho. Plus corporate sponsorship of signage and that aboretum thing being turned into a Mountain Bikers bar/clubhouse/restaurant.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Omega Man

[Guest Omega Man]

Ah, pray it is nothing like that David16v from some time back, he offered to build on XC tracks so many times and never pitched up, not once on three occasions (memory willing). But in true David style, he was quite a mouthpiece against work done on DH trails and got quite defiant at times too. Mtbsurfer, please put out minds at ease.. you are nothing like that right??

 

If Downhillers refused to work on the xc trails I'm afraid it would be pretty much you and your spade maintaining all of the xc trails Deon. Hahaha. But according to that David fellow xc trails don't need to be maintained once they appear out of thin air anyway. So it's chilled.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Omega Man

[(Deon)]

Oh yes, I remember the trail gnome debate.. trails magically repairing themselves while we all slept.

 

Hey, do you think it would be funny to post on that FB group that we are working on the XC trail next?? Dying to be included in the feedback..

 

Jonkers was ok when I last rode it, sure fire damage was clear, but the other mapped trails were fast and the rock gardens... well, they rocked!

 

Do you think we place too much demand on maintenance by what we see in movies?? You know most of that stuff is subject to different climates and purpose built for the shoot.. it could give us a skewed perception of the quality of our trails in mid summer.

[Karate Monkey]

It's more a fact that when XC riders see a braking bump or a rut in a turn they think it's in horrible condition because our perception of XC in SA is jeep track riding for 40km and when you see a bridge you unclip and get off and walk it.

 

Have a look at world cup XC coures...far far far from what an XC course looks like in SA!

 

They need to wake up, grow balls and improve their skills.

[Capricorn]

 

They need to wake up, grow balls and improve their skills.

 

straight in, no kissing. - Rachel Atherton..

[covie]

ok I'm tired of this dh vs xc thing typical sa,let me try and justify why I am,better than you. now kids put a xc guy on a dh track he won't be great at it put a Dh guy on a 3 day marathon he would be dead within the first leg. so stop trying to measure dicks and come up with a solution like they have in the UK us and EU awesome commercially run worldclass bike parks most on public land.

[(Deon)]

HTFU? Agreed.

 

Ja, and stop comparing dicks!

Edited March 8, 2012 by Pain or Shine

[Karate Monkey]

I beg to differ. Our level of XC tracks are not even close to world standards(not condition but on a technical level). I go ride my xc bike with xc kit on a xc single track and then I am still frustrated with guys cycling up the wrong way of the single track or they go so slow and moan about how messed up the track was(when it is perfectly fine).

[covie]

I beg to differ. Our level of XC tracks are not even close to world standards(not condition but on a technical level). I go ride my xc bike with xc kit on a xc single track and then I am still frustrated with guys cycling up the wrong way of the single track or they go so slow and moan about how messed up the track was(when it is perfectly fine).

 

Sure, did you ever stop and think someone who has been riding for 10 years and have developed the skill wont be bitching, and someone thats been riding for 3 months wont have the confidence nor the skill to take on proper technical track, and I have ridden in a couple of countries, and trust me we have some of the best ST and trails in the world. Sounds to me that you my friend have a slightly inflated ego as to who you are and your importance on this planet.

 

Come up with a respected idea, on this thread and restore some credibility, at the moment you just look like a noob with a big mouth.

[Karate Monkey]

Getting a bit bitchy there hey?

 

And no it is not like that, I have to start on lame tracks to get better, I didn't just jump to technical tracks and held everyone up behind me. Start with something your skill level and then go up. Why do you think we see so many tracks being closed because people with no skills try the big stuff and then injure themselves just to write news paper articles and sue the land owners for their own stupidity. (Zevenwacght, Majik Forest, Stellenbosch trails are just a few examples.)

 

You get so fedup with XC riders when you just built a nice new berm and are still next to the trail working (after you put a branch infront of it to close it) when a XC rider comes right over the bush and through the berm destroying the wet soil! Then he turns around looks at his muddy ass and then starts crapping you out????? I mean serious! you would also be cheesed off!

 

So as to you saying come up with respected ideas? Sure here is a few!

 

1. Let the XC riders come to build days to repair trails(no matter which trail)

 

2. Trail signs showing one way trails only! There is no such thing as 2 way trails!

 

3. Respect the trails you have been riding on which have been built by AM/FR/DH riders. They put in hard work to get them the way they are!

 

Lastly, I don't do the forum fighting thing sorry for you! I go home after work with a spade in my hand and go rebuild the trails you enjoy!

 

Peace out brother!

 

 

Sure, did you ever stop and think someone who has been riding for 10 years and have developed the skill wont be bitching, and someone thats been riding for 3 months wont have the confidence nor the skill to take on proper technical track, and I have ridden in a couple of countries, and trust me we have some of the best ST and trails in the world. Sounds to me that you my friend have a slightly inflated ego as to who you are and your importance on this planet.

 

Come up with a respected idea, on this thread and restore some credibility, at the moment you just look like a noob with a big mouth.

[jimmy hardtail]

Let's get reeeedddy to aruuuuuuummmmbbblle!!!

[covie]

Getting a bit bitchy there hey?

 

And no it is not like that, I have to start on lame tracks to get better, I didn't just jump to technical tracks and held everyone up behind me. Start with something your skill level and then go up. Why do you think we see so many tracks being closed because people with no skills try the big stuff and then injure themselves just to write news paper articles and sue the land owners for their own stupidity. (Zevenwacght, Majik Forest, Stellenbosch trails are just a few examples.)

 

You get so fedup with XC riders when you just built a nice new berm and are still next to the trail working (after you put a branch infront of it to close it) when a XC rider comes right over the bush and through the berm destroying the wet soil! Then he turns around looks at his muddy ass and then starts crapping you out????? I mean serious! you would also be cheesed off!

 

So as to you saying come up with respected ideas? Sure here is a few!

 

1. Let the XC riders come to build days to repair trails(no matter which trail)

 

2. Trail signs showing one way trails only! There is no such thing as 2 way trails!

 

3. Respect the trails you have been riding on which have been built by AM/FR/DH riders. They put in hard work to get them the way they are!

 

Lastly, I don't do the forum fighting thing sorry for you! I go home after work with a spade in my hand and go rebuild the trails you enjoy!

 

Peace out brother!

 

Nope mate Im not bitching at all, I am saying your holier than though attitude while posting does not demand much respect. Trying to pervay that one type of discipline makes one better than another making comments like go develope some skill etc. That does not sit well, There are DH riders that suck there are XC riders that suck, There are XC riders that doesnt follow rules and there are DH riders that doesnt follow rules. Its called the human phenomanon.

 

Now you get involved in some trial maintenance respect for that, but in the same sentence there are posts about what will happen if one posts on a DH page lets go fix som XC track and the jokes that would ensue. Yet in the next breath there is a call to arms why dont XC people join in. Cannot have your bread buttered both ways dude. If you want everyone to work together for the greater good of the game, you need to take your DH attitude and bury it next to that berm, and the same applies for the XC guys.

 

If you want to get a group together to build/maintain trails thats awesome as well but then you go at it with a plan, i.e. letting everyone know this week we maintain section X (DH) and next week we move over to section Y (XC) hence forming a maintenance team for the greater good of the sport. In all disciplines regardless of how baggy your shorts really are.

 

Bottom line is without coordination and a concerted effort nothing will change.

 

Take a track like twrchtrail cwmcarn in whales, its public forest owned by the UK guvment, on it you will find someone leased it, build a awesome trail on it, put down a lovley restaurant toilets, showers, dressing rooms and lockers, they have a bike rental shop where you can rent proper quality bikes, from carbon XC machines to the meanest downhill monsters money can buy. They have AM type track, XC type track, downhill tracks, jump tracks etc. And its all beautifully maintained. There are no monserous entry charges, a set fee pretty much like we have here, they earn their revenue from the bike lift service taking DH people up and down, The restaurant, the coin operated rest room locks, businesses putting their logos on trail maps, the bike rentals and signage etc. All and all a damn good setup, which inspires, and is a world apart from debates like this where when you read it you wonder why your still part of this community.

 

These guys are coordinated, effeciant, dedicated, and have a plan, there is no crap of we have to wait on the forestry commision for xyz, they submit yearly plans and have it approved. They simply do things right.

 

Without that kind of management leadership an entrepreneurship, none of the above will ever change.