(Deon) Posted March 8, 2012 Share Cant agree more but just one thing most of the trail centers in the UK are privately funded and privately run. The big difference is they have proven to their forsestry commisions that its sustainable and can be done over long periods with minimal impact to the environment. I am in my 6th year of officially trying to win trust in the sport, except forestry are not actually bothered with the conservation issues, but winning favour with conservation who are managing most of the commercial forests in CT, is where the battle is.. for the reasons you rightly state. Karate Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted March 8, 2012 Share Sounds rosy. SA is still in a developmental stage, these debates prove it. You think other countries did not have their fair share of discussion? I want to know how you can submit a yearly plan and HAVE it approved? You think approval is easy considering where we are with this sport? I cannot count the submissions lost in the black hole of bureaucrazy.. Problem is there is nobody that has shown the initiative and the leadership to do this type of thing. Approving a yearly plan is not that difficult, forestry know exactly when they plan on working, planting, stripping particular sections way in advance. Ive had long conversations with some of the trail managers on my travels, they all went in with the financial backing from local businesses already involved in cycling, they all had a decent plan drawn up, they had backing from environmental experts outlining the routes they will create how they wil maintain and what the impact assesments are from having those routes. And lastly they all pay a fair amount of money back to forestry for the privillege of using the land in such a fashion. We go and we decide we need a new peace of singletrack then we try and get permission for that peae of singletrack with no plans in mind, and no backing, and a year down the line its a rutted peace of dirt cuasing donga's and draining issues. If i was forestry i wouldnt allow it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted March 8, 2012 Share Enjoy, Im personally looking at the 5 day tour where i have to pedal myself around. But hey everyone has their own definition of fun. We are going to Morzine. There's loads of all types of riding there. hundreds and hundreds of km's. I've got a trail map of Morzine and Les Gets and there's a LOT of XC as well as sick DH. I'm not sure about the xc in the other bikeparks in the region but there's lots of riding. You must go. It's incredible. Edited March 8, 2012 by Omega Man Karate Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karate Monkey Posted March 8, 2012 Share I wouldn't mind a "peace" of single track! lol! you meant piece! And no there are guys doing it, they are working their butts off to get that done, they are in 24/7 meetings with Forestry/nature conservation/local governments and land owners. There are no financial backing because economic times like these does not allow them, cycling shops are struggling to survive. The problems run much deeper than people know! Problem is there is nobody that has shown the initiative and the leadership to do this type of thing. Approving a yearly plan is not that difficult, forestry know exactly when they plan on working, planting, stripping particular sections way in advance. Ive had long conversations with some of the trail managers on my travels, they all went in with the financial backing from local businesses already involved in cycling, they all had a decent plan drawn up, they had backing from environmental experts outlining the routes they will create how they wil maintain and what the impact assesments are from having those routes. And lastly they all pay a fair amount of money back to forestry for the privillege of using the land in such a fashion. We go and we decide we need a new peace of singletrack then we try and get permission for that peae of singletrack with no plans in mind, and no backing, and a year down the line its a rutted peace of dirt cuasing donga's and draining issues. If i was forestry i wouldnt allow it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted March 8, 2012 Share Problem is there is nobody that has shown the initiative and the leadership to do this type of thing. Approving a yearly plan is not that difficult, forestry know exactly when they plan on working, planting, stripping particular sections way in advance. Ive had long conversations with some of the trail managers on my travels, they all went in with the financial backing from local businesses already involved in cycling, they all had a decent plan drawn up, they had backing from environmental experts outlining the routes they will create how they wil maintain and what the impact assesments are from having those routes. And lastly they all pay a fair amount of money back to forestry for the privillege of using the land in such a fashion. We go and we decide we need a new peace of singletrack then we try and get permission for that peae of singletrack with no plans in mind, and no backing, and a year down the line its a rutted peace of dirt cuasing donga's and draining issues. If i was forestry i wouldnt allow it either. Fiar enough, but "we" obviously is a very broad reference. Not like that here in Tokai but we are limited to trails that were naturally developed while the pine stands were still in place, roughly 15 years ago?? Tricky getting permission from the people tasked with protecting Red Data list species, to cut trails through new growth.. very tricky indeed. See where we differ from other countries.. Not all plans are half baked. - We are going to Morzine. There's loads of all types of riding there. hundreds and hundreds of km's. You must go. It's incredible. Enough gloating Duane. Me personally, I am getting very tired of all.. "Morphine this, Morphine that" talk. Go already, and take that grey haired bugger with you (if he can keep himself together for long enough).. Karate Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted March 8, 2012 Share I am in my 6th year of officially trying to win trust in the sport, except forestry are not actually bothered with the conservation issues, but winning favour with conservation who are managing most of the commercial forests in CT, is where the battle is.. for the reasons you rightly state. Get cape town Tourism to back you they will have a lot more pull with conservation than you, just get a couple of university/tech students to use MTB and tourism in SA as a thesis subject, let them do all the research about how much capital it can bring into the country then setting a meeting with the tourism board to get them to back any proposals that needs to go to forestry and conservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtbsurfer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Ah, pray it is nothing like that David16v from some time back, he offered to build on XC tracks so many times and never pitched up, not once on three occasions (memory willing). But in true David style, he was quite a mouthpiece against work done on DH trails and got quite defiant at times too. Mtbsurfer, please put out minds at ease.. you are nothing like that right?? You are missing the point here Pos, as I suspected would happen. If I raise a point about the trail maintenance the first thing that happens is that I get dumb comments about how many build days everyone has attended. That is not the point guys !! If that is your big issue why not raise funds and get hired help to assist with the building ? The point is there are thousands of riders in Tokai who would all like to see the XC trails fixed or more trails built. Also I ride in Tokai all the time and I have never seen any info about a build day!!! How are you guys even advertising this ? Not all riders in Tokai are on the forum. Debating one's level of ability to ride technical/broken trails etc is also missing the point. I think the wong people are in charge here ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted March 8, 2012 Share I wouldn't mind a "peace" of single track! lol! you meant piece! And no there are guys doing it, they are working their butts off to get that done, they are in 24/7 meetings with Forestry/nature conservation/local governments and land owners. There are no financial backing because economic times like these does not allow them, cycling shops are struggling to survive. The problems run much deeper than people know! Where do you dig Karate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karate Monkey Posted March 8, 2012 Share Mostly Stellies, had a few not so nice experiences with XC guys at majik while repairing the track! So not there anymore! Where do you dig Karate? (Deon) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted March 8, 2012 Share Get cape town Tourism to back you they will have a lot more pull with conservation than you, just get a couple of university/tech students to use MTB and tourism in SA as a thesis subject, let them do all the research about how much capital it can bring into the country then setting a meeting with the tourism board to get them to back any proposals that needs to go to forestry and conservation. Does not work. You think that patch of lawn is greener, ever tried working with them? Ha, promises.. I hear you though, that is why we have two sleeves and both of them conceal a secret weapon.. Karate Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted March 8, 2012 Share You are missing the point here Pos, as I suspected would happen. If I raise a point about the trail maintenance the first thing that happens is that I get dumb comments about how many build days everyone has attended. That is not the point guys !! If that is your big issue why not raise funds and get hired help to assist with the building ? The point is there are thousands of riders in Tokai who would all like to see the XC trails fixed or more trails built. Also I ride in Tokai all the time and I have never seen any info about a build day!!! How are you guys even advertising this ? Not all riders in Tokai are on the forum. Debating one's level of ability to ride technical/broken trails etc is also missing the point. I think the wong people are in charge here ! .. and with that sir, you missed the joke. But since you have come out and said what's on your mind, you will come to the next one right? Paid labour? More attractive every time I hear it! Capricorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiderX Posted March 8, 2012 Share You are missing the point here Pos, as I suspected would happen. If I raise a point about the trail maintenance the first thing that happens is that I get dumb comments about how many build days everyone has attended. That is not the point guys !! If that is your big issue why not raise funds and get hired help to assist with the building ? The point is there are thousands of riders in Tokai who would all like to see the XC trails fixed or more trails built. Also I ride in Tokai all the time and I have never seen any info about a build day!!! How are you guys even advertising this ? Not all riders in Tokai are on the forum. Debating one's level of ability to ride technical/broken trails etc is also missing the point. I think the wong people are in charge here ! How about you round up a couple of thousand XC riders and ask PoS if its possible to work on the XC trails on the next build day? Or maybe start a fund or something where people can donate money for your cause. Don't rely on other people to get things done the whole time. Capricorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtbsurfer Posted March 8, 2012 Share How about you round up a couple of thousand XC riders and ask PoS if its possible to work on the XC trails on the next build day? Or maybe start a fund or something where people can donate money for your cause. Don't rely on other people to get things done the whole time. Agreed. It is worth a try. Best way to get something done properly is to do it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy hardtail Posted March 8, 2012 Share Hey PorS, I don't know how you put up with all this abuse. If I was you I would tell all the haters to go build their own fxxxing trails and just go ride. But please don't . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted March 8, 2012 Share Geez, you are a man on a mission, just hope you have a bit more diplomacy when YOU get the mtbsurfer treatment from other users wondering why every request to maintain is not met with a resounding yes from the landowner. I think I answered your query earlier; why are there only DH build days? Because it had to be done, why do you persist with eroding the collective efforts of those actually making a difference, but making the very comments you complain of? Makes me wonder how much you understand of what we have achieved? I cannot speak for Jonkers, but Tokai has seen the biggest change in perception since MTB was officially included in the SANParks activity. There have only ever been two VIP's with unrestricted vehicle access allowed in Tokai, one is Working for Water, the other is mountainbiking.. this was finally granted in August. Does this alone not show progress.. Is the short sightedness in your comments really how you want to be remembered? Let's look at the downhillers and the downhill trail. In the short space of time, I was able to convince the Park authorities to keep the trail open even though the requirements of the sport goes against what is considered sustainable. Then the downhillers themselves. The activity of motivating the trail required that the downhiller get themselves sorted. They needed to reign in all unauthorised builders, assist in closing unauthorised trails and create a group for effective communication that would show the cohesion within a sub-community. This small group has always received the the short end of the stick, XC riders inconsiderately rode up their only trail and vehemently defended their actions. Now we have a one way system in place suggested by the downhillers, motivated by me and approved by Parks. Add to all this we have the FIRST purpose built track that has ever been built in Tokai. Not a trail developed through constant use as we have in our legacy. Trails we are stuck with until the scoping process is completed, one that comes at a price of no less that R120 000. This will be the document that proves we are oversubscribed and determines among many things, new trails.. oh and it will apply to other riding areas on Table mountain. But of course you know all this because you have taken the time to read around on the hub and stay informed before making clever comments.. If we have been able to achieve all this since June, can you imagine what is coming for the XC track?? Agreed. It is worth a try. Best way to get something done properly is to do it yourself. Karate Monkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted March 8, 2012 Share /thread mods, please close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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