Coffee machine

[Brian Fantana]

 

Does that mean you will part with a Bialetti for meager compensation...

 

Haha, the bialettis are still used for camping and hiking trips, and I still love the coffee I make with them, even though it isn't close to real espresso.

[GBguy]

So how much are we talking about for a proper grinder? Or what should I look out for.

 

http://www.yuppieche...spresso-Machine

 

The machine in the link has a grinder included in the prise. Can't figure from the specs what the quality of the machine is, but what about the grinder?

 

Stewie - I'm not up on prices. I would guess that any commercial grade grinder would do. What separates them is a couple of things - they have much bigger burrs, so they don't build up heat or static in the coffee. Also they are built to much tighter tolerances, so the individual grains are roughly the same size. All of this is critical to espressing coffee (forcing hot water through a compacted mass of coffee grounds) but doesn't make much difference to other processes, like the Aeropress, Moka, French-press etc. If you're interested, I could explain why, but you can probably work it out.

 

When I bought my espresso machine (for so much money that I'm still in shock, nearly six years later) I also bought a burr-grinder recommended by the seller. It was a mid-range grinder from a well-known brand. But when I set up my shiny new equipment, I found it impossible to make a decent espresso. I was practically suicidal, after spending all that money. So I consulted the chat forum devoted to the Brewtus and was told what I'm telling you now.

 

I took a deep breath and bought a Mazzer Mini - the same kind of grinder you see in Woolies coffee shops - and right away I started turning out decent espressos. IIRC it cost me R3,500 for the grinder. The one i got with my machine is still in the garage somewhere. After a few years of practice, I can produced pretty good espressos - and I know what they should taste and look like because I've been a judge in the national barista championships for the past four years.

 

Edit: unfortunately it's not practical to have your coffee ground for you. You need to constantly tweak your grind to suit your machine and your bean - that's one of the trickiest parts of making a really good espresso. And I'm ignoring the fact that the beans should be ground immediately before you pull your shot - minutes make a noticeable difference. Espresso really is a b1tch to get right.

Edited July 11, 2012 by GBguy

[lloydkayak]

Since by my el-cheapo Russel Hobbs espresso machine and blade grinder combo for R1k I am already becoming a snob and realising MANY coffees we get served by baristas who have the machines but havent a clue are sub standard compared to I guess the "average" coffees I am making with my setup...

 

I dont want to taste coffee thats any better because then my budget will be buggered

[V12man]

OK - here comes sticker shock time.

 

My slightly old price (09/2010) list shows a Mazzer mini timer at 4900 ex VAT. a mini electronic at 6800 ex, Super jolly timer electronic at 6900, a mazzer major timer at 9000, and a Kony electronic at 16000 ex.

 

I am not a fan of the base mini, but the mini electronic converted to run super Jolly burrs is ok. SJ is ok and the Kony is the dogs dangly bits (but WILL NOT fit under any kitchen cabinets known to man.

 

There are other good grinders out there, i just don't have a price list for them - expect to pay about 10k for a good one - I have a Mazzer Robur at home - big,.... wife does not approve of having it in the kitchen - so it's not in the kitchen...

 

The robur does make things easy GBguy - I find I hardly ever have to make grind adjustments like on my Mini elec (which is daily).

 

In reality, to make consistent good espresso, you are not going to get away with under 15k for a grinder and machine - however unlike bikes, they do last a long time - well looked after - 10 years or more easily - especially in a home setting.

 

To have the best of the best kit - pick a number - any number.....

[Stretch]

i grind my beans at a local coffee shop that wife has a shop in - and they have an old manual grinder - that does a fantastic job at grinding - the only problem is not having access to it regularly......so i am on the lookout for a manual grinder....i think 90% of that is that i think it will be pretty cool to have it mounted on my kitchen wall

[Brian Fantana]

i grind my beans at a local coffee shop that wife has a shop in - and they have an old manual grinder - that does a fantastic job at grinding - the only problem is not having access to it regularly......so i am on the lookout for a manual grinder....i think 90% of that is that i think it will be pretty cool to have it mounted on my kitchen wall

 

If your mind is not entirely made up on a wall mounted manual grinder have a look at the Zassenhaus Santiago or the Zassenhaus Lima, both are great portable manual grinders and will produce a better grind than most of the electric grinders three times its price.

 

Check them out here: http://www.truthcoff...l-burr-grinder/

 

and here: http://www.coffeecom...ipment/grinders

Edited July 12, 2012 by 4M41_Jero

[V12man]

Or if you really want a quality hand grinder- uses big conical burrs

 

http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-PHAROS-Hand-Coffee-Grinder_p_3977.html

[GBguy]

OK - here comes sticker shock time.

...

To have the best of the best kit - pick a number - any number.....

Thanks for the update on prices - wow, not cheap! And I just love the look of that hand-grinder - I wonder how consistent the grounds are, under a microscope (which is what matters with espresso).

 

I use the base Mazzer Mini, which is (or was) much beloved of 'serious' home baristas around the world - I'm sure things have advanced in the past couple of years, so I wouldn't suggest it's the best thing to get today. But it is certainly in a different class to domestic grinders. FWIW I have never used the hopper - I spoon the beans into the metal 'throat', which can hold up to 40g - enough for two double shots. Makes it much easier to use in a low-volume (home) setting.

 

If I were doing this over, I'd look for a grinder (and a commercial espresso machine) at one of those auction houses that specialize in catering equipment. Of course there's a risk of getting worn-out or faulty equipment, but I think with a bit of research and care one could save a lot of money.

[GBguy]

... MANY coffees we get served by baristas who have the machines but havent a clue are sub standard ...

 

ain't that the truth! Ultimately - like a bike - it's the operator, not the equipment.

 

I dont want to taste coffee thats any better because then my budget will be buggered

 

Wise words.

[Stretch]

If your mind is not entirely made up on a wall mounted manual grinder have a look at the Zassenhaus Santiago or the Zassenhaus Lima, both are great portable manual grinders and will produce a better grind than most of the electric grinders three times its price.

 

Check them out here: http://www.truthcoff...l-burr-grinder/

 

and here: http://www.coffeecom...ipment/grinders

 

ooh - i like the santiago

[V12man]

ain't that the truth! Ultimately - like a bike - it's the operator, not the equipment.

 

 

 

Wise words.

 

You equipment budget will be busted true - but you will be able to make good coffee - better than most coffee shops in SA, and that's definately a worthwile experience for you and your friends.

 

If you make decent coffee (takes some effort initially and a chunk of change) then you will discover that your operational expenses on coffee might go up a lot... all your friends (and your wifes) will think you are a great free supplier of coffee - which is fun for a while, but costs a lot buying beans - we (wife, friends and I go through about 5kg a month - more than half of that is friends)

 

GBGuy - here are some threads for you on grinders:

 

Titan grinder project (you will see why I bought the Robur)

http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/titan-grinder-project-t4126.html

 

Ground coffee analysis using an electron microscope

http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/titan-grinder-project-scanning-electron-microscope-sem-analysis-of-ground-coffee-t4205.html

 

Particle size and distribution

http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/titan-grinder-project-particle-size-distributions-of-ground-coffee-t4203.html

 

 

And a last one - brand new to me - a review of hand grinders, and definately worth a read as it develops.

http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/hand-grinder-roadshow-t22223.html

[GBguy]

Thanks for these links - much appreciated

[walkerr]

Love this thread - one of my favourite on the hub.

 

Got trip to US coming up and will be adding the following to my current stable of grinders and brewing apparatus (Krups grinder, Saeco semi auto, Bosch drip machine, 2 and 4 cup mocca pots):

 

http://www.amazon.com/Aerobie-Aeropress-Hario-Grinder-Package/dp/B004785HAY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3OTYMWZTV0VMQ&colid=1F1WUKW08SUT2

 

Read good things about the Hario hand mills and Aeropress - seems perfect for camping trips and when Eskom decides to throw the power out.

 

100% concur with comments that decent beans and a grinder make the difference. Even with just a cheapo Krups grinder from Dion, being able to grind my beans just before brewing has made a huge improvement to my coffee's taste. Even the drip machine (don't laugh!) makes a passable quick morning cuppa with a fresh grind of right coarseness, long as not left standing on the hot plate).

[pauloc]

Wow - taken me 3 days to trawl through this thread whenever I get a gap. Very informative and interesting. Thanks for the all the info guys.

 

As with most things, it looks like you get those looking for a reasonable middle ground, and the experts that know the intricacies and spend a while getting every detail right.

 

I fall squarely into the push-button crowd - anything will be better than instant coffee. I don't really want to spend 5 - 10 mins preparing a cup of coffee, especially first thing in the morning. It seems like the Delonghi ecam 23450 (??) has been mentioned favourably a few times. Anything else in this price range (around 6k) that people would recommend?

[V12man]

@ Walkerr - you should try a Hario V60 - drip straight to cup - you can get them on Amazon too - again, this needs a good grinder to really perform well, but it does not need to be in the espresso class of grinder.

 

@pauloc - Bosch and Siemens make decent machines as well as Jura - all sold and supported locally.

 

Search junkmall and gumtree - there are machines there often, and a couple just on today.

[walkerr]

@ Walkerr - you should try a Hario V60 - drip straight to cup - you can get them on Amazon too - again, this needs a good grinder to really perform well, but it does not need to be in the espresso class of grinder.

 

Don't tempt me!

 

Coffee machines come under same category as bikes and cameras with me - ideal number I "need" follows the N+1 or S-1 rule.