Tokai: Personal safety

[LazyTrailRider]

Mike, you have my respect and support. Nicely done.

[nishiki]

Hmmm. Thanks for all the replies guys. Both neg and pos. To the negatives, I don't think this is the forum to start debating laws/religions/rights/wrongs.

However, Nishiki, you weren't there so your criticism is invalid...until it happens to you .... AND ... I'm no "HERO". Take back your insinuation.

 

There was another cyclist who two weeks ago had his head smashed in with a branch in same parking lot. He was unable to defend himself.

His bike was stolen. He received 6 stitches to his face. I'm in that forest at 6:00 am in Winter in the dark with my fiance'. Riding. I WILL at any time use force to subdue an attacker. I have never subscribed to the notion of "handing it over" and or turning a blind eye. I will NOT be a victim.

To defend one self and or to bring down an attacker, often, force IS required. The reason we have so many victims of crime, is due to people like you. To insinuate that I have commited a crime by kicking this cretin, puts you way off base.

I think you have a slightly skewed view of what the word defend actually means, but if you are happy to remain a victim because of your beliefs, thats cool by me. Just don't complain if you get hit one day.

 

For the record, it is alleged that this scumbag's accomplice in the bakkie did indeed have a gun!

Whats your point?

The scumbag in question was also armed with a screwdriver when I went for him. I was unarmed. Nishiki, If you would like to love your fellow criminal, feel free. I will continue to kick them in the head or wherever. It's MY bike/car/wallet/etc. As it is everyone else's property on this forum and elsewhere.

So don't criticize me for my actions. The lady in question has already had to fork out money for insurance excess, time wasted, trauma etc.

The thought of what else could have happened to her ghad she been there alone makes one shudder.

At least I was able to give her hand bag back to her. Intact. Her ID still there. Bank cards still there etc.

Try doing any transactions without your ID. It's just not possible today.

 

Mike

Hey dude, if you want a pat on the back for kicking someone in the face, you are not going to get it from me. I think what you did was nobel. Not many folks would stand up and do the right thing. Hopefully you don't have dependants and your life insurance is all good if you say they had guns/knives.

 

So for a wallet, you risked your life (and luckily didn't get shot), and you kicked the guy in the head, breaking his teeth out. Leeeeekkkkka

[LazyTrailRider]

I must be honest, I had already edited OM's line that offended 'Dale before 'Dale's post. I also thought it was not beneficial to the thread. (You understand OM..? I get that you have had enough of crime 'n all but for the thread it had to go...)

 

MH, there are some people who would rather aim an attack on the choice of words rather than the subject of the thread.. history has shown this to be true, just search for "Stopping at red lights"..

 

Cool, I hear you, and agree for the purposes of this thread

 

Obviously, I'm not in agreement with the opinion(s) and implied perspectives of the two individuals mentioned (the one's incessant "diplomacy" irks me hugely), but that's a different matter altogether and not to be discussed here...

[JGR]

Hmmm. Thanks for all the replies guys. Both neg and pos. To the negatives, I don't think this is the forum to start debating laws/religions/rights/wrongs.

However, Nishiki, you weren't there so your criticism is invalid...until it happens to you .... AND ... I'm no "HERO". Take back your insinuation.

 

There was another cyclist who two weeks ago had his head smashed in with a branch in same parking lot. He was unable to defend himself.

His bike was stolen. He received 6 stitches to his face. I'm in that forest at 6:00 am in Winter in the dark with my fiance'. Riding. I WILL at any time use force to subdue an attacker. I have never subscribed to the notion of "handing it over" and or turning a blind eye. I will NOT be a victim.

To defend one self and or to bring down an attacker, often, force IS required. The reason we have so many victims of crime, is due to people like you. To insinuate that I have commited a crime by kicking this cretin, puts you way off base.

I think you have a slightly skewed view of what the word defend actually means, but if you are happy to remain a victim because of your beliefs, thats cool by me. Just don't complain if you get hit one day.

 

For the record, it is alleged that this scumbag's accomplice in the bakkie did indeed have a gun!

Whats your point?

The scumbag in question was also armed with a screwdriver when I went for him. I was unarmed. Nishiki, If you would like to love your fellow criminal, feel free. I will continue to kick them in the head or wherever. It's MY bike/car/wallet/etc. As it is everyone else's property on this forum and elsewhere.

So don't criticize me for my actions. The lady in question has already had to fork out money for insurance excess, time wasted, trauma etc.

The thought of what else could have happened to her ghad she been there alone makes one shudder.

At least I was able to give her hand bag back to her. Intact. Her ID still there. Bank cards still there etc.

Try doing any transactions without your ID. It's just not possible today.

 

Mike

 

Ignore him - this is the same guy that bashes TMB, never contributes, wants to keep his hidden trails, ect. Mike 99% of people will agree with you and what you did but there will always be one and like you said he wasnt there (thankfully for the lady involved) so it is easy for him to critisize what he would not have had the courage to actually do. I would also hope that I would be as quick thinking to have acted in the manner you did. Keep it up!

[(Deon)]

This is certainly nothing I would recommend, putting yourself in danger, but there are people who will not hesitate to jump in when help is needed. For that Mike, your assistance is appreciated.

 

Nishiki, I get what you are saying too, I think we all do. Your words are not going unnoticed but really, you are doing it again, the thread is fast becoming about you and your gripe with Mike. Relax, point made.( You don't drive a golf with an EC plate do you? Hope not, that guy was acting like a real tjop. Remember OM? A royal TJOP in a golf..)

[nishiki]

This is certainly nothing I would recommend, putting yourself in danger, but there are people who will not hesitate to jump in when help is needed. For that Mike, your assistance is appreciated.

 

Nishiki, I get what you are saying too, I think we all do. Your words are not going unnoticed but really, you are doing it again, the thread is fast becoming about you and your gripe with Mike. Relax, point made.( You don't drive a golf with an EC plate do you? Hope not, that guy was acting like a real tjop. Remember OM? A royal TJOP in a golf..)

Hey. No I don't drive a Golf. Not even I would be THAT much of a tjop.

I think there has always been an element of dodginess at Tokai. That park where we always pay has always had shady characters lurking about. This is where I think this has been picked up on.

 

I still do not agree that we need to act violently to crime. I know people are pissed off by it, as am I, but being aggressive will not lead to a solution. It will lead to someone innocent getting hurt.

 

The parks should be responsible for the safety of people at their venues. Especially over weekends.

 

Oh, and a question for the OP, how did you know that they had weapons ?

 

Lastly, to all of you who just choose to attack my views: it makes me glad to be able to provide an alternative view to your jaded one sided views. For those who chose to get personal...bite me, and kiss my ass

Edited October 1, 2012 by Pain or Shine

[(Deon)]

Nishiki.. you have it wrong dude. There is a difference to contributing and antagonising.

[Smiles]

well done Mike, you just made my day reading this.

[jimmy hardtail]

I would have kicked the fxxxxer in the head. Twice. My bike is the most precious thing I have after my wife and daughter. I've had two stolen before. I got very angry...

[_Daemon_]

So just how safe is Tokai to ride alone? Planning a trip down to CTN in a month, will bring my bike with.

[nishiki]

Nishiki.. you have it wrong dude. There is a difference to contributing and antagonising.

no dude, you just don't like my opinion, so you need to feel that it antagonises you.

[Decapod_Crew]

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle"

Edmund Burke 1770

[Guest Omega Man]

no dude, you just don't like my opinion, so you need to feel that it antagonises you.

Congratulations. You've discredited someone for performing a very brave act and standing up against the cancer of crime in our society. Yes I too abhor violence and most on this forum do too. Unfortunately criminals won't typically respond to invitations to tea and wait patiently for the police to cart them off to the police station where they will be detained in a nice calm manner.

[Eddy Gordo]

Guys forget about him!!! The day he walks in on someone breaking into his house or stealing somthing from him in plain view he might just flip and then totally contradict himself. Otherwise he is jut gonna turn over and well um hmm,well yeah we all know what will happen then.

I would do the same if I had witnessed this! Unfortunately in South African society one has to protect oneself, otherwise these guys will just keep on coming back for more and more

[(Deon)]

no dude, you just don't like my opinion, so you need to feel that it antagonises you.

 

"Nice, so you assault the guy by kicking him in the face, answering a crime with a crime."

 

Actually, your comment that I believe was made to antagonise an already emotional thread was not aimed at me, so me feeling antagonised is not the case..

 

Just for the record, and what blows your 'alternative contribution' out the water is that Mike did not commit a crime but took the necessary action to subdue a criminal.

[(Deon)]

Meeting with Parks this morning was positive but at the same time highlights a few areas that we as users should take into consideration, main one being cycling alone, especially after sunset.

 

I've spent two evenings (weekend) up there between 7 and 7:30pm and have seen the last few cyclists leave well after the sun has set. What is worrying is that we seem to be giving the impression of a false sense of security. Would-be criminals just need to identify with this and they will form their own method from the circumstance.

 

Each cyclist who left the park after 7pm was alone and did so with at least 10mins between each other. This means that there was at least 10mins before and 10mins after each rider exiting the park alone in the dark, one of whom was a woman cyclist.

 

Is Tokai safe? I guess it is only as safe as we make it.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Pain or Shine