Tumbleweed Posted August 27, 2012 Share Good point, what if LA was allowed to bring 20 witnesses testifying that saw him training to win and dont believe he doped? Aggghh cant believe i'm getting sucked into this again Tchuss You just can't resist, can you! Who's saying the "evidence" is just testimony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 27, 2012 Share Drug cheats fit common pattern http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bryan-burwell/burwell-drug-cheats-fit-common-pattern/article_5dd4e60d-cf93-5512-8ed5-9d06ea6cccf6.html ...and then from the Livestrong site: 4 Ways to Identify Symptoms of a Pathological Liar Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13256-identify-symptoms-pathological-liar/#ixzz24kBTqi3z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGR Posted August 27, 2012 Share What is baffeling is then if he is indeed guily how he averted all the testing - in season and out? Even with a 20 mins heads up as some articles eluded to. Surely but surely over nearly two decades in the sport something more evident would have surfaced. The amout of people needed for this conspiracy is equal to that of Bush in his 911 cover up? (for the Zietgeist followers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 27, 2012 Share What is baffeling is then if he is indeed guily how he averted all the testing - in season and out? Even with a 20 mins heads up as some articles eluded to. Surely but surely over nearly two decades in the sport something more evident would have surfaced. The amout of people needed for this conspiracy is equal to that of Bush in his 911 cover up? (for the Zietgeist followers) And don't forget, he's a big mate of Bush's... Micro-dosing goes some way to explaining a lot of the evasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGR Posted August 27, 2012 Share And don't forget, he's a big mate of Bush's... Micro-dosing goes some way to explaining a lot of the evasion.Maybe the used the same 'cover up crew' If he was within the limits at the time then he was clean. The problem i have with the witness testimony is that are not experts, have no idea of what/when and how much Lance did. Could have been a placebo for all they know? Even eyewitness testominy should be linked to facts. ie. i saw lance used x transmission bag, yes the one you have in evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 27, 2012 Share Maybe the used the same 'cover up crew' If he was within the limits at the time then he was clean. The problem i have with the witness testimony is that are not experts, have no idea of what/when and how much Lance did. Could have been a placebo for all they know? Even eyewitness testominy should be linked to facts. ie. i saw lance used x transmission bag, yes the one you have in evidence? Hahahahahahaha! More conspiracy! Yeah, I get what you're saying. The burden of proof for a doping agency isn't that high. And many other athletes, not necessarily cyclists, have been sanctioned without physical evidence. As many on both sides of this agument have said, it would be interesting to see what Usada does have on him. The testimony of former teammates and members is often touted, but I would hope that the Usada probe went further than that, and have complied some sort of paper trail, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGR Posted August 27, 2012 Share Hahahahahahaha! More conspiracy! Yeah, I get what you're saying. The burden of proof for a doping agency isn't that high. And many other athletes, not necessarily cyclists, have been sanctioned without physical evidence. As many on both sides of this agument have said, it would be interesting to see what Usada does have on him. The testimony of former teammates and members is often touted, but I would hope that the Usada probe went further than that, and have complied some sort of paper trail, etc.Exactly - its been touted as one of the biggest drugs scandal in sports history - let hope they have more than i saw him with a needle. (which is a theraputic technique as well). wrt other sports people - perhaps the sporting bodies allowed for it (no proof). I read a very cool article about the biggest cheats in sports and this doesnt even touch the spanish olympic basketball team, who all pretended to be disabled to compete in the paraolympics .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 27, 2012 Share Exactly - its been touted as one of the biggest drugs scandal in sports history - let hope they have more than i saw him with a needle. (which is a theraputic technique as well). wrt other sports people - perhaps the sporting bodies allowed for it (no proof). I read a very cool article about the biggest cheats in sports and this doesnt even touch the spanish olympic basketball team, who all pretended to be disabled to compete in the paraolympics .... With regard the US sporting bodies, they still have to submit to Usada oversight in terms of doping. From what I can understand, their investigation mirrors that of the withdrawn Fed probe, but doesn't use the same evidence gathered. Let's see. If Bruyneel carries through with arbitration, some of this may come out. Regardless, Tygart has said the evidence will be made public. Never heard that story about the basketball team. Sounds interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGR Posted August 27, 2012 Share With regard the US sporting bodies, they still have to submit to Usada oversight in terms of doping. From what I can understand, their investigation mirrors that of the withdrawn Fed probe, but doesn't use the same evidence gathered. Let's see. If Bruyneel carries through with arbitration, some of this may come out. Regardless, Tygart has said the evidence will be made public. Never heard that story about the basketball team. Sounds interesting...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_at_the_Paralympic_Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbreath Posted August 27, 2012 Share Anyone clued up on the specifics of Marion Jones' trial. She gave back all her medals didnt she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 27, 2012 Share Jeez, JGR, that's disgusting! Thanks for the link. Just read thisss short blog from Vroomen: http://gerard.cc/2012/08/27/lets-focus-on-the-future/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGR Posted August 27, 2012 Share Jeez, JGR, that's disgusting! Thanks for the link. Just read thisss short blog from Vroomen: http://gerard.cc/201...-on-the-future/Ill try find the article - i think it was from SI top 10 of everything. It had 9 other dodgy moves that are as equally low. My point being that he was still the best athlete at the time. In a level playing field with or without i think he still would have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted August 27, 2012 Share Ultimately as much as machines we think we are and these athletes are, we all have an expiry date. also - that little spanish bugger has more grand tour wins than lance. so you cant say you only admire lance for his skill. there are many others who have done far better than him. except jens voight... he goes on forever Edited August 27, 2012 by fandacious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted August 27, 2012 Share also - that little spanish bugger has more grand tour wins than lance. so you cant say you only admire lance for his skill. there are many others who have done far better than him. except jens voight... he goes on forever Never said skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted August 27, 2012 Share also - that little spanish bugger has more grand tour wins than lance. so you cant say you only admire lance for his skill. there are many others who have done far better than him. LA targeted the TDF, probably because it has always been the Meneer of races that even people (Americans etc....) not interested in cycling knew about. LIke the comrades marathon in SA everyone knows about it but who knows about the other much harder more prestigous ultra marathons?Which is why i like to believe its feesible for a geneticaly talented athlete who trains seriously to not need to dope. Add a whole season of racing to win onto your program and then it becomes a different story.... Just a theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shova1 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Another LA article, this one by drug free sport, enjoy:http://www.drugfreesport.org.za/news/ eddy and Lucky Luke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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