Oscar Pistorius

[Tumbleweed]

Just read that the IPC won't seek any sanction against Oscar for his outburst.

[Tumbleweed]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_ring_circus/2012/09/03/oscar_pistorius_alan_oliveira_the_south_african_paralympian_accuses_his_rival_of_getting_an_illegal_leg_up_.html

 

Don't know if this has been brought up before: Allegations of amputees running on unnaturally long legs aren't new in the Paralympics. Back in 2004, Pistorius himself stood accused. In a story for Slate, Felix Gillette wrote that American sprinters Marlon Shirley and Brian Frasure believed Pistorius, then just 17 years old, was "racing tall" — that a "growth spurt" right before the 2004 Paralympic Games in Athens added two inches to his legs. Though Gillette was unable to reach Pistorius, who "was unavailable for comment because he was studying for his high school's final exams," his father Henke "called the allegations 'a bunch of bull.' "

[Trubie]

saw that too yes

thing is if they lash out against him, it can have far reaching consequences for the whole PR campaign they used him for

heard this morning what Oscar earns p/a ,and the whole issue makes much more sense - unfortunately

 

btw - the Brazilian has also admitted that since started using the longer blades 3 weeks ago, he has improved his time over 200m by a second (it was also the first time in 9 years he lost a 200m race - not refering to racing against able bodied athletes)

now that is a serious advantage - with or without legs......

So Oscar will most likely be proven right, but still doesnt right the wrong of the outburst.

As if SA needs any more bad publicity following the Lonmin saga

 

He still inspires big time, and will continue to do so

and what the heck does it matter to him or the world if we love or hate him

[Tumbleweed]

He still inspires big time, and will continue to do so

and what the heck does it matter to him or the world if we love or hate him

 

The IPC president, Sir Philip Craven, said he was a good friend of Pistorius’s. “I can understand in one way the reaction… It’s just incredible sadness and surprise, maybe, at having lost. But I know Oscar for the type of guy he is. He’s a really great guy. I’m sure he will come back from this.”

[Grebel]

The IPC president, Sir Philip Craven, said he was a good friend of Pistorius’s. “I can understand in one way the reaction… It’s just incredible sadness and surprise, maybe, at having lost. But I know Oscar for the type of guy he is. He’s a really great guy. I’m sure he will come back from this.”

 

Course he will. He'll just add a few inches to his blades... Who said it's not about the bike blades....?

[TimW]

"do you or do you not believe that his carbon legs give him an unfair advantage"

 

 

I do not believe this is the question we need to be asking ... it is impossible to prove if they give him an advantage (even the boring old argument that you should cut off your legs and see how fast you run is pointless, because you cannot compare learning a new skill (using prosthesis) to a lifelong habit (learning to walk -- as Oscar did with his prosthesis when his parents made the decision to amputate when he was a baby so he could learn to walk with them).

 

But if we ask: Is his performance (times) determined by his prosthesis? The answer surely has to be yes, and he admitted it this week when he accused the Brazilian of running faster by altering the size of his prothesis.

 

Somebody made the point that Oscar would alter his prosthesis for the next Olympics. He can't do that, because he would fall foul of the "normal-bodied" rules which allow him to run at the Olympics. They have been set (after all the court cases) so as to ensure Oscar does not win -- in other words it is like putting a limit on his top speed (or a rev limiter on a F1 car) to manipulate how fast he competes over 400m. The rules for Paralympics are different, which is why the Brazilian could alter his legs and run faster over the final 100m.

 

In a 500m race Oscar would beat able bodied athletes easily, because his prosthesis allow him to run faster over the end of a race due to a whole host of scientific reasons (including using less oxygen while running), but his starts are slow -- that is why he does not shape in a 200m race against able-bodied athletes.

 

 

Oscar was the face of the Olympics - part of the big London & SASCOC PR exercises

He got in through a B qualifier and being part of the relay team.... we have better 400m runners

 

 

We don't have better 400m runners. I think he ran the fastest time of all SA athletes in 2011 or 2012 (I think -- am checking but Iaaf site won't let me on so will edit if I am wrong)

[Trubie]

I do not believe this is the question we need to be asking ... it is impossible to prove if they give him an advantage (even the boring old argument that you should cut off your legs and see how fast you run is pointless, because you cannot compare learning a new skill (using prosthesis) to a lifelong habit (learning to walk -- as Oscar did with his prosthesis when his parents made the decision to amputate when he was a baby so he could learn to walk with them).

 

But if we ask: Is his performance (times) determined by his prosthesis? The answer surely has to be yes, and he admitted it this week when he accused the Brazilian of running faster by altering the size of his prothesis.

 

Somebody made the point that Oscar would alter his prosthesis for the next Olympics. He can't do that, because he would fall foul of the "normal-bodied" rules which allow him to run at the Olympics. They have been set (after all the court cases) so as to ensure Oscar does not win -- in other words it is like putting a limit on his top speed (or a rev limiter on a F1 car) to manipulate how fast he competes over 400m. The rules for Paralympics are different, which is why the Brazilian could alter his legs and run faster over the final 100m.

 

In a 500m race Oscar would beat able bodied athletes easily, because his prosthesis allow him to run faster over the end of a race due to a whole host of scientific reasons (including using less oxygen while running), but his starts are slow -- that is why he does not shape in a 200m race against able-bodied athletes.

 

 

 

 

We don't have better 400m runners. I think he ran the fastest time of all SA athletes in 2011 or 2012 (I think -- am checking but Iaaf site won't let me on so will edit if I am wrong)

 

Tim i beg to difffer

Oscar finished 7th at SA Snr Champs this year

Time wise , I dont have time to do a proper search as to who ran fastest this year etc

It will probably be Oscar as he was the one who ran the most races in trying to qualify

If the others had similar opportunities they would have done so

he ran his fastest time in the qualifying for the semi's at Olympics - 45.44

is he SA's best 400 m runner at the moment - not according to me, hence the comment

no problem if u or Dracs or anyone else differ from me

not trying to force my opinion - but perhaps I should as that is one of the "unwritten" hub rules

[TimW]

Tim i beg to difffer

Oscar finished 7th at SA Snr Champs this year

Time wise , I dont have time to do a proper search as to who ran fastest this year etc

It will probably be Oscar as he was the one who ran the most races in trying to qualify

If the others had similar opportunities they would have done so

he ran his fastest time in the qualifying for the semi's at Olympics - 45.44

is he SA's best 400 m runner at the moment - not according to me, hence the comment

no problem if u or Dracs or anyone else differ from me

not trying to force my opinion - but perhaps I should as that is one of the "unwritten" hub rules

 

Point taken ... there are different ways to determine who is best -- one event as in SA champs, times as in best of the year, or maybe an average or series and we would probably get three different answers.

 

Oscar was fastest this year but probably LJ van Zyl would have to be considered the best, although he was injured so was not able to run at his best this year -- LJ was the best in 2011 by the way.

 

Just as an aside, as much as I personally do not think Oscar should be running at the Olympics in pure sporting terms, I do believe he is a great inspiration and maybe that is enough to make his appearance at London 2012 worth bending of the rules.

[andydude]

Not at all. He should compete. Most def. Against other disabled athletes. Not abled ones.

 

And the scientific tests were done. 1) He was "banned". 2) He hired his own scientists to overturn the ban 3) Ban overturned 4) After time his own scientists start singing a different tune.

 

If you actually read the scientific tests that were done, you'll find the inconsistencies. I think the one thing was that they compared his results to long distance runners, but he is a sprinter.

 

Dr Ross Tucker has written brilliantly on why he thinks the blades do give an advantage. Too lazy to search for the article.

 

Oscar himself said the blades give an advantage.

 

To answer the OP question - I think the blades can have an advantage.

 

Compare it to Murphy and Robocop - I think Robocop was better.

Edited September 5, 2012 by andydude

[Trubie]

Point taken ... there are different ways to determine who is best -- one event as in SA champs, times as in best of the year, or maybe an average or series and we would probably get three different answers.

 

Oscar was fastest this year but probably LJ van Zyl would have to be considered the best, although he was injured so was not able to run at his best this year -- LJ was the best in 2011 by the way.

 

Just as an aside, as much as I personally do not think Oscar should be running at the Olympics in pure sporting terms, I do believe he is a great inspiration and maybe that is enough to make his appearance at London 2012 worth bending of the rules.

 

I didnt even consider the hurdlers, but yes at least 3/4 candidates for title of "the best"

 

agree that he shouldnt have run at Olympics, but insparation indeed.

For London ,IAAF, SASCOC, IOC and Oscar it was the best PR - untill the outburst

[Escapee..]

So Oscar is fast enough to qualify for the Olympics but not fast enough to win at the Paralympics.

 

So the winner at the Paralympics should then qualify to run at the next Olympics?

Oh sorry now that cant happen because then the blades become an issue again.

Thats what happens when you start changing/bending the rules.

 

I was watching a bit of the athletics last night, 1500m women`s T12. Blind runners with guides running against partially sighted runners without guides.

The partially sighted runners finished first and second (the only two partially sighted runners) by a huge margin.

What is the point of this? Surely like Oscar they should be running at the Olympics?

 

The blind runners never had a chance!

[Grebel]

Rules should be inflexible. You can't bend them to suit how you feel regardless of how popular the person involved may be! Why don't we bend the doping rules and give Conti back his title because there wasn't that much Clenwhatever in his blood. Bend the rules indeed! Pffft!

[Azonic]

If you actually read the scientific tests that were done, you'll find the inconsistencies. I think the one thing was that they compared his results to long distance runners, but he is a sprinter.

 

Dr Ross Tucker has written brilliantly on why he thinks the blades do give an advantage. Too lazy to search for the article.

 

Oscar himself said the blades give an advantage.

 

To answer the OP question - I think the blades can have an advantage.

 

Compare it to Murphy and Robocop - I think Robocop was better.

 

Exactly. There are many questions, most of which I'm too tired to go into again. There are many questions within the one question which is "does it give him an advantage". 1) Does it give him an advantage over able bodies people, whether he ends up wining or losing 2) Does the blades make him as a human faster than what he would have been had he had "real" legs. I feel YES in both points. His "legspeed" was a good 10% slower than the guy that won the other night. If you don't have that fast twitch muscles, you don't. Sad but true. But as mentioned, I'm not going to try push that point of view any more.

[Bianchisti]

I think he will restore a lot of respect and admiration with these comments:

 

http://www.supersport.com/paralympics/south-africa/news/120906/Pistorius_contrite_in_victory

 

 

 

"It's easy to be gracious when you win, but to be humble when you lose is not as easy – and I've had to learn that,"

 

"The timing of my comment wasn't great, and I've had to deal with the backlash. Although I was the first person to bring up the topic, and I got lashed very hard for it, there have been so many athletes who have spoken up over the last two days. It shows it is a huge problem, but it was distasteful of me and I realise that now. I'm sorry for it, but I do make mistakes."

 

"It wasn't easy coming out here today..., but I learned, and that's the beauty of life. I've apologised to Alan and tonight was an amazing opportunity for me to come out and get over that. The reaction from the crowd was unbelievable and it really is special and extremely humbling knowing how much support I have. The people here are so passionate and sometimes you make mistakes and they understand that, and it was really lovely to be back out here tonight and feel that vibe again."

[DJR]

I just came across this, so I'll pass it on just to stir a little bit....

 

Pistorius

 

[pis-toh-ree-us,] from the Latin word meaning " pissed off when not victorious "

Edited September 7, 2012 by DJR

[nathrix]

The Indictment Served On Oscar Pistorius Yesterday

 

http://www.scribd.co...rius-indictment