Roulier Posted October 3, 2012 Share How so Oh Oracle? my issue is a simply a moral one. These guys cheated and lied about it, now they coining it from 'tell all' books. At least David Millar is still in the sport, and never tried to deny anything, and is doing what he can to move things forward. David Millar never tried to deny anything?? Seriously?? He called Philippe Gaumont, who witnessed his doping a "lunatic"! You okes must read the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roulier Posted October 3, 2012 Share David Millar is trying to be good for the sport, but has been accused of being on the naive side with regards to the current situation of doping in the pro-peloton. He has recently asked the correct questions with regards to the role of the UCI in its role in doping over the last 10-15 years and was understandably "disappointed" when they denied any wrong-doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted October 3, 2012 Share David Millar is trying to be good for the sport, but has been accused of being on the naive side with regards to the current situation of doping in the pro-peloton. He has recently asked the correct questions with regards to the role of the UCI in its role in doping over the last 10-15 years and was understandably "disappointed" when they denied any wrong-doing Yeah, to be honest though, millar's lips were moving, but I think it was Vaughters' voice coming out. Millar proved himself a spineless worm, I don't think he's changed that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindspot Posted October 3, 2012 Share Crime appears to be out of control in SA. Why not just legalise actions that are currently crimes because so many people are stealing, robbing, mugging, raping and murdering? Or what am I missing? Are you seriously that brain dead? I have never seen thousands of people next to the road cheering on a guy who just raped a kid and being sponsored big money to do it with the logo on his shirt appearing on live tv for a couple of weeks. I would like to believe that there is no doping in cycling (or any sport), but it seems as if most, if not all, the pro's are doing it and are basically forced to do it for various reasons. It is part of the game and cycling will never get rid of it. If it was only 1 out of 50 who doped then it was a different story. I think the cyclists are the victims. They are the only ones who must live with the consequences. They don't have an unfair advantage as the following guy is also doping so nobody is cheating his opponent.The fans, family, team managers, doctors, sponsors etc. are indirectly or directly supporting doping in cycling but don't want to admit it. What will change in the pro races if doping gets legalised? At least there will be no more BS done behind the back and the winner keeps his title. But, maybe I am just brain dead. HappyMartin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted October 3, 2012 Share I think the cyclists are the victims. They are the only ones who must live with the consequences. They don't have an unfair advantage as the following guy is also doping so nobody is cheating his opponent.The fans, family, team managers, doctors, sponsors etc. are indirectly or directly supporting doping in cycling but don't want to admit it. What will change in the pro races if doping gets legalised? At least there will be no more BS done behind the back and the winner keeps his title. But, maybe I am just brain dead. You lying b@stard! You understand the sport 100% Nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmonooit Posted October 3, 2012 Share This moral high ground, to me, at least, is a South African peculiarity. Well then maybe that's what they could be asked: how do they reconcile all the media attention / celeb fame with being a liar and a cheat? There was a doccie on David recently (from a Spanish station), its on cycletorrents. I think he is quite a genuine guy, talks honestly about the context and the temptations. Claims he was clean for a period before he got busted. I am reading his book "Racing Through The Dark". FYI he will also be out here soon with Phil et al doing " Mind, Body, Bike" conference in Sandton 1st week on Nov, perhaps you would like to discuss your views of him being a spineless wimp with him personally Bob? Wyatt Earp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 3, 2012 Share When he comes to south africa to promote the book, will he be meeting with Shabir Shaik to chat about what pieces of $%$%#$% they both are? Huh?NoHare going down a rabbithole.... Unless Shaik is a PRO cyclist too. Edited October 3, 2012 by ' Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted October 3, 2012 Share FYI he will also be out here soon with Phil et al doing " Mind, Body, Bike" conference in Sandton 1st week on Nov, perhaps you would like to discuss your views of him being a spineless wimp with him personally Bob? Awesome. I'll be there. Didn't know he was coming, I have no respect for him and what he did to the sport I love. If JV was coming, I'd like to ask him a passably intelligent question or three. You should know by now, I'm the same in real life as I am here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider3000 Posted October 3, 2012 Share $$$$$.....it cost loads more to get the rights for cycling races than to get a rerun of 3 month's back Springbok loss...... Yes it does... but if the "girls race was live the day before" then surely they must have made an effort to get the "guys" race on supersport also...taking that it will cost nowhere near what they pay for other races like TDF etc. , taking that we had guys representing our nation also (just as the girls)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnekop Posted October 3, 2012 Share Yes it does... but if the "girls race was live the day before" then surely they must have made an effort to get the "guys" race on supersport also...taking that it will cost nowhere near what they pay for other races like TDF etc. , taking that we had guys representing our nation also (just as the girls)... Well SS just tweeted the "They could not get the rights"......what exactly that means, no one knows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petatodd Posted October 3, 2012 Share I have never seen thousands of people next to the road cheering on a guy who just raped a kid and being sponsored big money to do it with the logo on his shirt appearing on live tv for a couple of weeks. I would like to believe that there is no doping in cycling (or any sport), but it seems as if most, if not all, the pro's are doing it and are basically forced to do it for various reasons. It is part of the game and cycling will never get rid of it. If it was only 1 out of 50 who doped then it was a different story. I think the cyclists are the victims. They are the only ones who must live with the consequences. They don't have an unfair advantage as the following guy is also doping so nobody is cheating his opponent.The fans, family, team managers, doctors, sponsors etc. are indirectly or directly supporting doping in cycling but don't want to admit it. What will change in the pro races if doping gets legalised? At least there will be no more BS done behind the back and the winner keeps his title. But, maybe I am just brain dead.It's more than just the guys who want to cheat. It's the guy who doesn't want to be a thief but can't feed his family if he doesn't steal. There are plenty stories coming out now that the bad guy has been put away of very talented guys who left the sport because they were not competitive clean. People like Mercer and our own George. So the "They all do it, so what" falls down at the first hurdle. Do we run two leagues for dirty and clean? My view is we shouldn't force the lowest common denominator onto others, we should rather aim at the highest common denominator. Which is why zero tolerance is the only way. Of crime. And of doping. USADA state that they are taking action for the clean and innocent athletes of the world. This I support totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted October 3, 2012 Share It's more than just the guys who want to cheat. It's the guy who doesn't want to be a thief but can't feed his family if he doesn't steal. There are plenty stories coming out now that the bad guy has been put away of very talented guys who left the sport because they were not competitive clean. People like Mercer and our own George. So the "They all do it, so what" falls down at the first hurdle. Do we run two leagues for dirty and clean? My view is we shouldn't force the lowest common denominator onto others, we should rather aim at the highest common denominator. Which is why zero tolerance is the only way. Of crime. And of doping. USADA state that they are taking action for the clean and innocent athletes of the world. This I support totally. Duckface aside, I like this chick! Post of the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazambaan Posted October 3, 2012 Share @petatodd; I second TNT1; there are always choices and consequences as well as simple luck, good and bad. A scary tale is the one where young athletes were asked if they would take a drug that would guarantee them World Championship status or similar but would kill them at 35. The majority answered in the affirmative. I don't remember if the drug was illegal or not. The possibly scarier part is that I asked my son the same question when he was a teenager, very, very focussed (read stubborn/pigheaded) and in the top handful in his sport (non mainstream) in SA. He didn't turn it down. Again, illegality didn't come into it. If you are prepared to pay that price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted October 5, 2012 Share Check out Sunday Independent (Jhb), Sunday Tribune (Durban) and Weekend Argus this weekend for more on Hamilton and book ... couple of the papers are using full pages. I interviewed Tyler and Coyle and it was interesting ... Coyle is 100% confident he has double checked all of Tyler claims and has not put anything in the book that he could not verify (he says there was loads more than he left out because he could not verify independently). Both do not believe Armstrong will ever come out and admit it, but the evidence in the book leaves no doubt about guilt of Armstrong (and I say that as a former Armstrong fan boy -- until I read the book). They both are very cynical about UCI ever getting cycling clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted October 5, 2012 Share @petatodd; I second TNT1; there are always choices and consequences as well as simple luck, good and bad. A scary tale is the one where young athletes were asked if they would take a drug that would guarantee them World Championship status or similar but would kill them at 35. The majority answered in the affirmative. I don't remember if the drug was illegal or not. The possibly scarier part is that I asked my son the same question when he was a teenager, very, very focussed (read stubborn/pigheaded) and in the top handful in his sport (non mainstream) in SA. He didn't turn it down. Again, illegality didn't come into it. If you are prepared to pay that price?What is just as scary is a survey that was done in SA last year among schoolkids. I think the figure was far above 50% who did not believe taking steroids was wrong -- this was not just among sportsmen and women and a lot would take steroids for body image reasons. With that kind of peer pressure it is easy to see why school sportsmen would take steroids without too much thought. I have the latest release of sports people who have tested positive for illegal substances: five out of the 60-odd were minors. Of those 60, four were cyclists including (which I find a bit odd) one fairly well-known veteran mountain biker who tested positive at the Epic even though he was not even one of the top contenders in the masters category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboLuke Posted October 5, 2012 Share so how exactly did the clenbuterol get on your steak? Edited October 5, 2012 by RoboLuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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