MTB's out of China

[Skylark]

See the same haters are back to their no good hating again , lol

 

The proof is always in the pudding.... Many guys have these china bikes that look incredibly well made , are reliable and go the distance .

Not much more you can say.

 

Many , many brand name carbon frames have had catastrophic failures resulting in serious injury and sometimes death for the rider . Lots of examples on the internet.

But thats alright cause they have decals on them that have names that appeared in cycling magazine adverts , Tdf and so on and so forth.

Must have taken a lot of common sense to come up with that conclusion...

[DMC007]

Sourced this from the same factory for a mate. Dogma clone I believe. Its super nice - being built up right now.

 

 

 

 

Nice Dude....I just completed my clone (lol). Anyone interested, drop me a PM.

[Madmac]

Careful on full bikes. You will get lumbered on import goods (Luxury item). Rather buy the frame there and build it here.

And share where you got it to help out fellow Hubbers..........http://1.1.1.1/bmi/cdn.bikehub.co.za/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/clap.gif

Full bikes are not considered a luxury item but it does attract duty of 15%, the tariff heading it would be cleared under is 8712.00.10. You are correct in saying you don't pay duty if frame and parts are seperate (it can't be on the same invoice). Do your calculation, it might be worthwhile bringing in a full bike if you getting them cheap. Don't forget your VAT too. Here is a quick calculation if you want to know formula to work out exact cost,

 

If bike cost is R10,000 + 1,500 (15% duty) = R11,500. You have to pay ATV (added tax value) vat which is R11,500 + 10% + 14% = R1,771. Total = 10,000+1,500+1,771 = R13,271.

 

I hope this helps and isn't too complicated.

[Hairy]

Full bikes are not considered a luxury item but it does attract duty of 15%, the tariff heading it would be cleared under is 8712.00.10. You are correct in saying you don't pay duty if frame and parts are seperate (it can't be on the same invoice). Do your calculation, it might be worthwhile bringing in a full bike if you getting them cheap. Don't forget your VAT too. Here is a quick calculation if you want to know formula to work out exact cost,

 

If bike cost is R10,000 + 1,500 (15% duty) = R11,500. You have to pay ATV (added tax value) vat which is R11,500 + 10% + 14% = R1,771. Total = 10,000+1,500+1,771 = R13,271.

 

I hope this helps and isn't too complicated.

 

So essentially in broad strokes, a third of the bikes price is what you will be paying in addition to the purchase price

[Madmac]

So essentially in broad strokes, a third of the bikes price is what you will be paying in addition to the purchase price

Correct and that is probably excluding shipping costs and insurance.

 

Like i said, it helps to know what you in for so you can do the maths.

[Longbarn Killer]

Something pertinent to this topic.

 

 

I had a chat to a bike shop owner and he told me something which made a lot of sense.

 

 

We all know that most local brands use similar, unbranded, frames that are being discussed here. They simply add a paint job and a few decals. Some of these frames are hand picked from reputable manufacturers. Some are bought online, from some remote factory that the buyer has no knowledge about.

 

 

Either way, these unbranded frames have virtually no research and development. The manufacturers use the buyers as their r&d.

 

 

It works like this. You buy a frame from them (or through the SA brand) and it breaks. They replace it for you with a new one. Your broken one ends up in China (with hundreds of others). They look where the breaks or cracks are and then modify their design accordingly (maybe adding another layer of carbon for strength etc). Your replacement frame (still the original design) breaks again; they now replace it with the modified design and hopefully that one lasts, unless of course, another design fault crops up (which probably will). The process goes on and on until they get it right. If you are lucky, your frame won’t break. If you are lucky, you may have to replace it only once. If you are unlucky, the design fault will only manifest after your warranty has expired. An un-researched frame has a damn good chance of failing in some or other way.

 

 

Reputable brands (for want of a better word) like Specialized, Trek, Scott, Giant etc have their own in-house research and development. They put their bikes through all sorts of tests etc to make sure that it is right the first time. They make sure that their product is correct before you buy it.

 

 

This explains why very few of the big brands have launched 650b frames, despite the huge market potential? They haven’t been launched as they are still being researched. They are doing all the tests to make sure their frames are right before entering the market. The unbranded 650b frames were out there ages ago, obviously with no or very limited r&d time.

[babse]

Something pertinent to this topic.

 

 

I had a chat to a bike shop owner and he told me something which made a lot of sense.

 

 

We all know that most local brands use similar, unbranded, frames that are being discussed here. They simply add a paint job and a few decals. Some of these frames are hand picked from reputable manufacturers. Some are bought online, from some remote factory that the buyer has no knowledge about.

 

 

Either way, these unbranded frames have virtually no research and development. The manufacturers use the buyers as their r&d.

 

 

It works like this. You buy a frame from them (or through the SA brand) and it breaks. They replace it for you with a new one. Your broken one ends up in China (with hundreds of others). They look where the breaks or cracks are and then modify their design accordingly (maybe adding another layer of carbon for strength etc). Your replacement frame (still the original design) breaks again; they now replace it with the modified design and hopefully that one lasts, unless of course, another design fault crops up (which probably will). The process goes on and on until they get it right. If you are lucky, your frame won’t break. If you are lucky, you may have to replace it only once. If you are unlucky, the design fault will only manifest after your warranty has expired. An un-researched frame has a damn good chance of failing in some or other way.

 

 

Reputable brands (for want of a better word) like Specialized, Trek, Scott, Giant etc have their own in-house research and development. They put their bikes through all sorts of tests etc to make sure that it is right the first time. They make sure that their product is correct before you buy it.

 

 

This explains why very few of the big brands have launched 650b frames, despite the huge market potential? They haven’t been launched as they are still being researched. They are doing all the tests to make sure their frames are right before entering the market. The unbranded 650b frames were out there ages ago, obviously with no or very limited r&d time.

awesome post...

I'll still buy these unbranded frames!

 

"They make sure that their product is correct before you buy it."

bt yet these frames still has its odd failures.

 

End of the day its up to the individual if you willing to take the "risk" of buying these unbranded frames or paying the PRICE for the "quality" of the known brand frames.

[Skylark]

Something pertinent to this topic.

 

 

I had a chat to a bike shop owner and he told me something which made a lot of sense.

 

 

We all know that most local brands use similar, unbranded, frames that are being discussed here. They simply add a paint job and a few decals. Some of these frames are hand picked from reputable manufacturers. Some are bought online, from some remote factory that the buyer has no knowledge about.

 

 

Either way, these unbranded frames have virtually no research and development. The manufacturers use the buyers as their r&d.

 

 

It works like this. You buy a frame from them (or through the SA brand) and it breaks. They replace it for you with a new one. Your broken one ends up in China (with hundreds of others). They look where the breaks or cracks are and then modify their design accordingly (maybe adding another layer of carbon for strength etc). Your replacement frame (still the original design) breaks again; they now replace it with the modified design and hopefully that one lasts, unless of course, another design fault crops up (which probably will). The process goes on and on until they get it right. If you are lucky, your frame won’t break. If you are lucky, you may have to replace it only once. If you are unlucky, the design fault will only manifest after your warranty has expired. An un-researched frame has a damn good chance of failing in some or other way.

 

 

Reputable brands (for want of a better word) like Specialized, Trek, Scott, Giant etc have their own in-house research and development. They put their bikes through all sorts of tests etc to make sure that it is right the first time. They make sure that their product is correct before you buy it.

 

 

This explains why very few of the big brands have launched 650b frames, despite the huge market potential? They haven’t been launched as they are still being researched. They are doing all the tests to make sure their frames are right before entering the market. The unbranded 650b frames were out there ages ago, obviously with no or very limited r&d time.

 

Why do people carry on spewing this junk like branded frames never fail?

They do all this fantastic R&D that means all customers who buy their frames have been blessed with plain sailing for life - absolute rubbish

 

Search the hub there are mountains of people discussing warranty claims on frames from every major manufacturer - claims for defective workmanship because thats the only claim a manufacturer entertains , which some people seem to think only affects "chinese frames".

 

I have had frames from hugely popular mongoose and merida models that had design faults that became know issues - they just failed in the same place on countless frames and even on replacement frames . Search silverback warranty claims on the hub right now - theres a good few guys with frames that have been replaced 2 or even 3 times.

 

Ja its only chinese frames you need to be careful of....

[Big H*]

 

 

You love banging your drum on this one don't you? We get it ok - we're all stupid for buying branded bikes and you're the man for being able to recognise a well made, well designed frame from a low res photo on the internet.

 

Saying the frame must be good because 99% of all carbon fibre frames come out of the same district in China is like saying KFC on Corlett Drive is as good a restaurant as Orient in Melrose Arch because it's in the same district.

 

Fact is that there are some shockingly bad frames being made in China that are a waste of money and could cause you real injury when/if they fail. There are also some good frames being made that do represent a real saving if all you're after is getting a frame as cheaply as possible and real world after sales service and support is not a priority for you. But how do you know what is and isn't a good frame?

 

As always: Caveat Emptor

 

Jy klink soos 'n snobbistiese suurtiet!!!!

 

Sorri, I was a bit brash, you are not the only suurtiet, there are many more above.

Edited November 4, 2012 by eccentric1