EPO as a recreational cyclist

[Slowbee]

Sorry - i haven't seen THAT before...usually, when that sweeper vehichle comes around...I pedal like white hot ****!!! Can't face being stone cold last... third last is sooo much better... )

 

['Dale]

The power of peer pressure is immense.

Comparing finishing positions or times with each other in the amateur middle ranks is one exercise that can lead to doping.

[andydude]

A suggestion would be for someone to run an anonymous poll:

 

Q1: "Have you ever used PEDs in the past?"

 

Q2: "Have you used recently, or currently using?"

 

Q3: "If you've never taken before, but if you had access to them, and were sure you'd never be tested for them (i.e. middle pack rider), would you be open to trying them out?"

 

Comparing questions against each other, you could get an idea of current situation but also the current rate of growth of PEDs, and the potential future growth.

 

Sounds like a perfect reason for a poll. And you can vote unanimously. Also put on the banned substance list so people can see.

[TopFuel]

you see, that is the point. where is the line now ? All people who have asthma not to be allowed to compete in cycling races. surely they have unfair advantage over those that don't have asthma ... ???

 

Yeah, except for the fact that their chests like to close up periodically. Come on man, live and let live. Asthmatics wanna ride too...

Edited November 8, 2012 by TopFuel

[TALUS]

If you have a bad heart (lets say cardiomyopathy) you cannot ever win the Comrades - bad luck but real life. Chess remains an option. If you have asthma you shouldn't make a living out of cycling. It is the medical excemptions that create the grey areas. By all means take the asthma pump and ride for enjoyment but not for a living.

[tombeej]

If you have a bad heart (lets say cardiomyopathy) you cannot ever win the Comrades - bad luck but real life. Chess remains an option. If you have asthma you shouldn't make a living out of cycling. It is the medical excemptions that create the grey areas. By all means take the asthma pump and ride for enjoyment but not for a living.

 

So young Taylor Phinney, one of the most vocal anti-doping riders, who is also a chronic asthmatic, should not make a living out of cycling?

[Agteros]

If you have a bad heart (lets say cardiomyopathy) you cannot ever win the Comrades - bad luck but real life. Chess remains an option. If you have asthma you shouldn't make a living out of cycling. It is the medical excemptions that create the grey areas. By all means take the asthma pump and ride for enjoyment but not for a living.

Endurance athletes are prone to getting EIA (go google it)... Should they be kicked out of sport the moment that happens?

The idea of asthma medication where needed is not to turn those with chronic asthma into super humans, but rather to prevent the inflammation and hence constriction in their airways so they can breathe normally...

 

Advice (you may need it, even though you did not ask for it): Stop trolling and start reading!

[TALUS]

 

Endurance athletes are prone to getting EIA (go google it)... Should they be kicked out of sport the moment that happens?

The idea of asthma medication where needed is not to turn those with chronic asthma into super humans, but rather to prevent the inflammation and hence constriction in their airways so they can breathe normally...

 

Advice (you may need it, even though you did not ask for it): Stop trolling and start reading!

Why is this trolling suddenly? I may not have googled as extensively as you but I just wonder why a drug that only returns your breathing to normal would be banned or restricted at all...? Do you perhaps know why cortisone (even if given intra-articularly) needs an medical note explaining the reasons? What about beta- blockers for rifle shooter with arrythmias or hypertension ( it only returns them to normal ...?). Maybe you could tell us why Charl was stripped of his Comrades gold for using something that stopped the swelling and congestion in his nasal passages (and so returned him back to normal)? I could go on but you need to go googling...

[Agteros]

Why is this trolling suddenly? I may not have googled as extensively as you but I just wonder why a drug that only returns your breathing to normal would be banned or restricted at all...? Do you perhaps know why cortisone (even if given intra-articularly) needs an medical note explaining the reasons? What about beta- blockers for rifle shooter with arrythmias or hypertension ( it only returns them to normal ...?). Maybe you could tell us why Charl was stripped of his Comrades gold for using something that stopped the swelling and congestion in his nasal passages (and so returned him back to normal)? I could go on but you need to go googling...

Not falling for your trolling, but lets expose some knowledge on your side:

Do you perhaps know anything about the mechanisms of asthma, and the effect of medication for it on the body? Do you perhaps know which types of asthma medications are allowed, and which are banned by WADA? Yeah, there are some that are outright banned!!!

[TALUS]

Right let us do this since you insist on name calling. Yep I have vague knowledge: lets see now Alpha and beta receptors - right? How about alpha 1 and 2 and beta 1 and 2. now your turn: where do you find these receptors: a) only in the bronchi, B) also in the bronchiolii c) widespread including straited and smooth muscle. do you want to play more - I can go on. My point remains: the incidence of asthma is much higher in Pro endurance athletes than in amature ranks. Why? Its grey

Edited November 8, 2012 by cobuswes

[Agteros]

1. Can you take EPO as a recreational cyclist competing in a weekend race? Should they test you because you came 400th not your normal 500th would you be disqualified.

2. Would you take EPO as a middle to back of the pack rider in a stage race to give you a boost (are there social riders in the Epic etc using the stuff just to get through)?

Back to the OP:

1. Yes, you CAN do anything. However by being a CSA member NO, you are not allowed to as you are subject to anti-doping regulations. However chances that they'll test you as a recreational cyclist are infinitesimally small - they have bigger fish to fry with the money at their disposal for testing.

2. An unequivocal NO (Not sure about the Epic question, but a normal middle class non-athletic colleague is a patient of Dr Golding, so anything can happen, especially where sporting egos are involved: "I finished the Cape EPIC!" stuff)

Edited November 8, 2012 by robox

[TNT1]

Without pissing anyone off, who is Dr Golding?

[Agteros]

Right let us do this since you insist on name calling. Yep I have vague knowledge: lets see now Alpha and beta receptors - right? How about alpha 1 and 2 and beta 1 and 2. now your turn: where do you find these receptors: a) only in the bronchi, also in the bronchiolii c) widespread including straited and smooth muscle. do you want to play more - I can go on. My point remains: the incidence of asthma is much higher in Pro endurance athletes than in amature ranks. Why? Its grey

I'll answer your question regarding asthma with a quote from Dr Tim Noakes' Lore of Running, 4th edition, page 840:

"Despite the value that regular physical activity has for children with asthma (King et al. 1989), it is also clear that asthma is more common in elite athletes, especially endurance athletes, such as long-distance runners (Helenius et al. 1997) and cross-country skiers (Wilber et al. 2000), than it is in the general population. Women are particular at risk (Nystad et al. 2000). Risk rises with increased hours of training per week and is greatest in groups that trains the most (about 20 hours per week, Nystad et al. 2000). These findings invite the hypothesis that strenuous physical training is a risk factor for the development of asthma"

 

(Rynard Tissink?)

 

"Nystad et al. (2000) speculate that three factors may contribute to the higher incidence of asthma in athletes:

1. Repeated damage from overstimulation of the mechanisms that protect against dry air-induced damage to the linings of the respiratory airways (repeated injury may lead to chronic inflammation)

2. Recurrent infections that may be more common in athletes who train intensively

3. Increased exposure to environmental factors, including air pollutants, that may increase the risk of developing asthma"

 

Re grey: Life does not exist out of black and white (only in ZA it does - but that is a different debate!) Everything is grey. Black and white are the two poles / outliers: limits. Much like science that does not denote absolutes (You need religion if you want to deal in absolutes). Science is merely an explanation of the world based on currently accepted(proven) of knowledge. Anti-doping testing is part of the science thing....So WADA's position on a given class of drug might change (like it is continually doing)

[Agteros]

Without pissing anyone off, who is Dr Golding?

www.antiagingdoctor.co.za - mentioned in the "I Doped" thread

[TALUS]

Now that the tone of the discourse is a bit more repectfull, I would like to point out that most broncodilators have effects other than the widening of the airways. This includes stmulation of smooth and striated muscle - THUS it does alter the rest of the physiology in the rest of the cardiovascular system. This true of nearly all medications. If your medical condition warrants treatment with drugs that are restricted, you should be allowed to do so BUT not to win. HGH can also be used to suppliment to normal levels,but clearly shouldnt be allowed to take winnings

[Topwine]

Re grey: Life does not exist out of black and white (only in ZA it does - but that is a different debate!) Everything is grey.

I think you are over reaching a bit here ... Gravity is not grey. Science works with a lot of absolutes