Garfield2010 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Posted November 25, 2013 My last 70.3 swim was 33mins - haven't done this race before so not sure what time ill get I have always been a decent swimmer and have not focused much time but ive decided im going to try and work at it. Going for swim analysis tomorrow with Natalie Tissink tomorrow - would like to swim closer to 30 mins You should be in wave 2 then really. So what are the advantage/disadvantages of being in wave 2 rather than 3 and vice versa? No one likes to start at the back of any race lets be honest. You feel rushed and almost as if you need to make up time. Starting early is nice as you are into it immediately. Standing on the beach for another 20 minutes stressing wont help you so you will need to find a way to relax. The 2nd wave will also have an advantage as the wind picks up normally as the day progresses so a 20 minute period could help you on the bike. However it can also work against you if the wind changes - this will probably not have such a big effect. The big plus as Dave has pointed out - it could be nice to swim at the front of wave 3 - Wave 2 have already started creating a current and you should swim faster really.... Also if you compete with friends (which you really shouldn't do at IM) then you just need to catch the buggers in Wave 2 and stick close to them!!
bigjoe Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Well I think 2013 should be the benchmark - give the okes the benefit as they raced it most recently. Put everyone faster than 01h15 into wave 2 to start off with. Then consider the previous years etc. It is for them to prove they belong in another wave.... Wonder if they will actually take 70.3 times in Jan into consideration?? I am sure that German guy can work this out.... I swam 45 a minute 70.3 last time around... But don't look at me. My swim is about as stable as some of the okes commenting on this thread over the last 2 weeks Not sure how they are going to handle this one. I guess some people are going to be happy and others are going to be upset. Fact! It seems to be the norm as they cant please everyone. But i think it is a step in the right direction. i swam 34 mins at 70.3 this year, but I didnt do Full this year. Does that mean i get penalised? Would hope not. Then again, last year at full i swam 1:23. This however is due to the conditions. Difficult to work that out and make everyone happy. I'm not to fussed, as i have a friend that will be in wave 3, so if i start there then so be it.
JGR Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 You should be in wave 2 then really. So what are the advantage/disadvantages of being in wave 2 rather than 3 and vice versa? No one likes to start at the back of any race lets be honest. You feel rushed and almost as if you need to make up time. Starting early is nice as you are into it immediately. Standing on the beach for another 20 minutes stressing wont help you so you will need to find a way to relax. The 2nd wave will also have an advantage as the wind picks up normally as the day progresses so a 20 minute period could help you on the bike. However it can also work against you if the wind changes - this will probably not have such a big effect. The big plus as Dave has pointed out - it could be nice to swim at the front of wave 3 - Wave 2 have already started creating a current and you should swim faster really.... Also if you compete with friends (which you really shouldn't do at IM) then you just need to catch the buggers in Wave 2 and stick close to them!! I don't mind starting later (mostly because I always faf and run late). I would be happy to get into wave 2 but wont be sad to only be in 3. For wave 2 I would probably be in the mid to back so can draft some faster guys but then, not being the best cyclist have to resist the temptation to ride hard when the manne start screaming past me. Being in wave 3 near the front could be a good confidence builder for the rest of the race and have less people fly by and perhaps pass one or two myself.
Garfield2010 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Posted November 25, 2013 Not sure how they are going to handle this one. I guess some people are going to be happy and others are going to be upset. Fact! It seems to be the norm as they cant please everyone. But i think it is a step in the right direction. i swam 34 mins at 70.3 this year, but I didnt do Full this year. Does that mean i get penalised? Would hope not. Then again, last year at full i swam 1:23. This however is due to the conditions. Difficult to work that out and make everyone happy. I'm not to fussed, as i have a friend that will be in wave 3, so if i start there then so be it. Well if it was up to me I would rank okes by their Full IM times over the last couple of years. They should definitely give you preference as you swam well last year. Maybe they should have asked the athletes in the mail what they prefer? Maybe 40% of the field wants to start in the last wave? Problem solved....
bigjoe Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Well if it was up to me I would rank okes by their Full IM times over the last couple of years. They should definitely give you preference as you swam well last year. Maybe they should have asked the athletes in the mail what they prefer? Maybe 40% of the field wants to start in the last wave? Problem solved.... But it becomes tricky trying to get the exact cut-off time for the different years, especially as the conditions were so different between 2012 and 2013. Perhaps they can work on %'s instead of times. Top 40% over the last 3 years at full, and you make the cut. Then go down to 70.3 times. Well, like i have said.....not to stressed. Just happy i got an entry and that i can go back for nr 2!
JGR Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Well if it was up to me I would rank okes by their Full IM times over the last couple of years. They should definitely give you preference as you swam well last year. Maybe they should have asked the athletes in the mail what they prefer? Maybe 40% of the field wants to start in the last wave? Problem solved....That's an excellent point which I didn't consider ..... there are probably a number who just want to finish or who are a little nervous swimming in the sea that don't want to waste energy in the chaos upfront. Maybe some people are still mentally scared from swimming in your wave the last year
bigjoe Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 That's an excellent point which I didn't consider ..... there are probably a number who just want to finish or who are a little nervous swimming in the sea that don't want to waste energy in the chaos upfront. Maybe some people are still mentally scared from swimming in your wave the last year Garf, please let me know what your times were, want to make sure that i request being in a different wave than you....dont want to experience the claw just yet
ADe Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 What do you guys think of a run/walk strategy for the marathon? I have been reading up on this and there seems to be some consensus that this is a good strategy if you train that way as well. I am not a walker and it will be a mind shift, but how many guys do the IM marathon without walking at some point? So my thinking is, by incorporating it into my training/race strategy it might just save me pain and time.
Garfield2010 Posted November 26, 2013 Author Posted November 26, 2013 What do you guys think of a run/walk strategy for the marathon? I have been reading up on this and there seems to be some consensus that this is a good strategy if you train that way as well. I am not a walker and it will be a mind shift, but how many guys do the IM marathon without walking at some point? So my thinking is, by incorporating it into my training/race strategy it might just save me pain and time. Well most average okes do that. They walk at every water table. Personally I think that breaks your rhythm and also costs you a lot of time. I am advising the following:- Do 8 hour bike rides... and make sure you can run a solid 25km in general. The rides will ensure you feel OK even after 180km on the bike... Then focus on hydration on the last 30minutes on the bike and hopefully you will get to 25km into the marathon without walking too much giving you an immediate advantage. The next 10km will be tough (run walk) but then the last 5km you will feel you are nearly done and will be able to run again...
JGR Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 Well most average okes do that. They walk at every water table. Personally I think that breaks your rhythm and also costs you a lot of time. I am advising the following:- Do 8 hour bike rides... and make sure you can run a solid 25km in general. The rides will ensure you feel OK even after 180km on the bike... Then focus on hydration on the last 30minutes on the bike and hopefully you will get to 25km into the marathon without walking too much giving you an immediate advantage. The next 10km will be tough (run walk) but then the last 5km you will feel you are nearly done and will be able to run again...Only if you don't incorporate this in your training
Garfield2010 Posted November 26, 2013 Author Posted November 26, 2013 What do you guys think of a run/walk strategy for the marathon? I have been reading up on this and there seems to be some consensus that this is a good strategy if you train that way as well. I am not a walker and it will be a mind shift, but how many guys do the IM marathon without walking at some point? So my thinking is, by incorporating it into my training/race strategy it might just save me pain and time. Or let me quantify this. If you walk at every table I don't see you doing a sub 5 hour marathon. I am planning on doing a 4 hour marathon next year. To achieve this I will need to break the 14km laps into 3.. Lap 1: 70 minutes (5 minute / km pace) Lap 2: 80 minutes (5 minute 40 seconds / km pace) Lap 3: 90 minutes (6 minute 20 seconds / km pace)
Garfield2010 Posted November 26, 2013 Author Posted November 26, 2013 Only if you don't incorporate this in your training Easier said than done. Do you have water tables every 2 km's on your training runs? Road running has every 5km normally. Then you are also not used to running soaking wet with sponges with wet feet. Also if you aren't used to this you may well overhydrate and take too many gels cuz they are everywhere and when you walk past it you normally eat and drink it..... Personally I have tried incorporating it into training but its really not that easy. I have ran well, walked for 50 meters and then suddenly boom a hammy feels tight. I find keeping a steady rhythm is best. But that's just me....
SwissVan Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 What do you guys think of a run/walk strategy for the marathon? I have been reading up on this and there seems to be some consensus that this is a good strategy if you train that way as well. I am not a walker and it will be a mind shift, but how many guys do the IM marathon without walking at some point? So my thinking is, by incorporating it into my training/race strategy it might just save me pain and time. There is some merit to walking for sure, look at the comrades marathon for example. See the link below where the author claims it saved time on long hills http://www.alsoranrunners.info/Skills.htm
Metzet Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 and when you beyond exhausted and "gatvol" you should resort to the classic strategy "run two street lamps, walk one"that got me through the last 7kms in the 2012 IMSA
ewald99 Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 I tried walking every 10 minutes for a few seconds one year, another year I tried walking every 4kms for a minute, and I have tried different paces for the running. Nothing has worked, I still k*k off at about 25km and suffer the rest of the way at 7 min per km. So I think this year I might just accept that fact and run a reasonable pace for the first 25km, then have a 5 min lie down next to the road, and just put my head down and run what I can for the last lap. So if you see a guy lying on the grass and staring at the sky at the last aid station in the university just let me be.
Red Zone Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 Or let me quantify this. If you walk at every table I don't see you doing a sub 5 hour marathon. I am planning on doing a 4 hour marathon next year. To achieve this I will need to break the 14km laps into 3.. Lap 1: 70 minutes (5 minute / km pace) Lap 2: 80 minutes (5 minute 40 seconds / km pace) Lap 3: 90 minutes (6 minute 20 seconds / km pace)You should probably look at reversing your strategy, try starting the run off at your slower pace and then build the speed for a fast finish, otherwise you may blow up early and have nothing left to give in the second and third laps
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