CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[Icycling]

PPA investing R200 000 per month..

Wow! Enough money:-

- to send riders to overseas

- better prize money in leagues

 

I feel PPA should work under CSA and improve our future!

 

Unfortunately for the racing cyclists, the current PPA committee (EXCO) do not think funding any / much form of racing cyclist is a worthwhile investment! So if you disagree with this stance nominate members who you feel would like to support the competitive end of the sport then go to the AGM and vote them in to be on the EXCO which is a 12 person committee - 6 up for re election each year. In 2 years you can achieve a complete new EXCO! The EXCO steers the direction of PPA - with regards to competitive cycling the current EXCO does not have much interest from what I and several other racing cyclist can see! But also alway remember PPA is not only about racing cycling but certainly could invest a reasonable sum of money into the competitive side of cycling with out taking anything away from other cycling causes they currently invest in.

[Brogue]

Good to know if PPA did take over CSA, they will apply their anti competitive idea of ONLY using Racetec for races and everyone that did not belong to them will not to get results even if they had racetec chips.

 

That's just ONE the benefits of belonging to the largest cycling association in SA. Bear in mind it's beneficial and helpful to cyclists to have a single results profile and timing standard. What benefits do you derive from CSA membership? Zippo, nada, zilch, nothing, blowall!

[scotty]

That's just ONE the benefits of belonging to the largest cycling association in SA. Bear in mind it's beneficial and helpful to cyclists to have a single results profile and timing standard. What benefits do you derive from CSA membership? Zippo, nada, zilch, nothing, blowall!

Huh ?? says who and why must it be Racetec? Cool if you happy, keep PPA in WC though. Not interested in all the politics, i ride any event i want whether sanctioned or not.

 

The Argus is the only race in SA where you MUST have a Racetec chip. I do more Championchip and SAS timed races than Racetec which we would be forced to use. The PPA seeding is of no use to me due to the incestuous relationship of PPA/Racetec.

 

I'm funny that way in that i like freedom of choice.

Edited June 12, 2013 by scotty

[slabs]

Stupid question. What is the difference between PPA and say Dirtopia or the organisers of the Sani2C, Joberg2C or a club such as Cyclelab, Tygerberg MTB, Epic etc. All are "associations" that collect your money at varying rates for the privilege to ride their routes or events. In each case you still have to fork out the CSA licence fee.

 

So is the PPA being targeted because it just happens to be a succesful organisation with 18000+ members....

 

Just asking....

[Icycling]

As far as I know these guys fall in line with CSA not sure about the other! Not been a MTB rider.

 

 

Dirtopia or a club such as Cyclelab, Tygerberg MTB,

[Java001]

Unfortunately for the racing cyclists, the current PPA committee (EXCO) do not think funding any / much form of racing cyclist is a worthwhile investment! So if you disagree with this stance nominate members who you feel would like to support the competitive end of the sport then go to the AGM and vote them in to be on the EXCO which is a 12 person committee - 6 up for re election each year. In 2 years you can achieve a complete new EXCO! The EXCO steers the direction of PPA - with regards to competitive cycling the current EXCO does not have much interest from what I and several other racing cyclist can see! But also alway remember PPA is not only about racing cycling but certainly could invest a reasonable sum of money into the competitive side of cycling with out taking anything away from other cycling causes they currently invest in.

 

Not sure if linking PPA to a racing angle is possible ?

 

LOTTO “owns” SASCOC; SASCOC owns CSA and CSA believe they own ALL cycling activities, both recreational & racing ( mandated by Government & UCI respectively, so they believe)

 

PPA’s arguments seem to hinge on the fact that they want to remain an autonomous recreational body without CSA interference and CSA must focus on UCI racing activities.

 

Surely PPA would shoot themselves in the foot and any future EXCO would be insane to support or contemplate any PPA involvement in racing actvities, when they have indicated that this is CSA domain ?

[Icycling]

Not sure if linking PPA to a racing angle is possible ?

 

LOTTO “owns” SASCOC; SASCOC owns CSA and CSA believe they own ALL cycling activities, both recreational & racing ( mandated by Government & UCI respectively, so they believe)

 

PPA’s arguments seem to hinge on the fact that they want to remain an autonomous recreational body without CSA interference and CSA must focus on UCI racing activities.

 

Surely PPA would shoot themselves in the foot and any future EXCO would be insane to support or contemplate any PPA involvement in racing actvities, when they have indicated that this is CSA domain ?

 

Well their lies the double edge sword - PPA want / need to organize Spring and Summer league racing to make sure they have the critical mass to en sure their road "fun rides" are viable! The road fun ride are very marginal on profits - thus less and less each year. Thus my statement earlier:

 

"F. If for argument sake WPCA organized spring and summer league racing on the same day as PPA event - would PPA give the racing body (WPCA) their blessing? I cannot answer this but I expect not as PPA would possibly run the risk of the road fun ride no longer be financially viable for the fun ride organizer due to the reduced entry. So if this is the case then Why does PPA not just also do racing properly "a necessary evil" they certainly have the money to do it properly - maybe then CSA / gov would be siding a little more with PPA! As high lighted in this post "Pro cycling is going, it's just not going well."

 

If they could do away with they probably would - but if say WPCA were to organize event on the same days with prize money then the racing cyclist would probably go to where they see best value. Naturally event like the Double Century (oh ya their is reasonable prize money their) Die Burger and The Cape Argus (again prize money but compared to the Two Oceans or Comrades - quite a lot less) I would think WPCA would not chose to put events on these dates!

 

So yes to a degree the road racing rider is been used by PPA to service their need to masses at fun ride - without been give reasonable rewards for this - I.E. I don't think R200 gift voucher at Cannel walk after paying about R180 is a reasonable reward!

[dirtrider]

As a fun rider a reasonable reward would be to do a race on roads and places that I normally cannot do it . And a bit of water along the way also helps .

[Icycling]

As a fun rider a reasonable reward would be to do a race on roads and places that I normally cannot do it . And a bit of water along the way also helps .

 

Not sure what you are say as only the motor way, cyclist are not allowed on, so only The Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay get that right and the full road closure for this event is just perfect!

 

Look at last Summer season how PPA event went on in th Southern Suburb - I can ride over Chapmans Peak every day if I choose. In fact when I stated fun ride in the 80ies many came over Constantia Nek and Chapmans Peak - now how many can do this? ZERO

 

Actually PPA is well a wear of how many cyclist are out training in Summer on roads like Chapmans Peak and NOT supporting the PPA Fun rides! Have you ever been over Chapman's Peak on a Saturday or Sunday morning in Summer - PPA should be asking for this to be a car free zone from Sunlight to say before say 09h00. Have it open only to walkers, runner, horse rider, cyclist etc! PPA could offer to pay the toll money lost by the cars - they could do that on the historical stats and they would probably get away for R1000 per day i.e. R2000 per weekend for 3 month R24 000 when you investing over R200 000 in unit trust does this not seem to be a better place to spend it if you want to provide benefits to your members?

[Brogue]

Huh ?? says who and why must it be Racetec? The Argus is the only race in SA where you MUST have a Racetec chip.

 

Says the 18000+ members who belong to the largest leisure cycling association in RSA. Other provinces have a piecemeal approach, whilst the Western Cape is unified under a single banner. PPA are entitled to appoint a single timing contractor that is geographically local with a national presence whichl affords it's members uniformity and a single results profile.

 

Other races that require a Racetec transponder are:

The Herald VW Cycle Tour 106km, Eastern Cape

Optimum Berge en Dale Classic 97km, Gauteng

99er Cycle Tour 108km, Western Cape

Dis-chem Ride for Sight 125km, Gauteng

Nedbank Cycle Challenge 100km, Namibia

Daily Dispatch Cycle Tour 100km, Eastern Cape

Cape Argus Pick n Pay MTB Challenge 52km & 75km, Western Cape

Wilro Lions Cycle Challenge 114km, Gauteng

aQuelle Tour Durban 105km, KZN

Pick n Pay Weekend Argus Rotary Knysna MTB 50km & 80km, Southern Cape

Mnt2Mnt Cycle Challenge 106km, Limpopo

Lost City Cycle Event 115km, Northwest Province

Lost City Mountain Bike Event 70km, NorthWest province

D2D Cycling Race 93km, Gauteng

Rand Water Race For Victory 110km, Gauteng

Kumba Iron Ore Classic 105km, Northern Cape

Pennypinchers Die Burger Lions Karoo to Coast 100km MTB Challenge 100km, Southern Cape

Cycle Lab Cape Cobra Challenge 85km, Western Cape

Bidvest Steiner Penny Pinchers GOK Cycle Tour, Southern Cape

PPA One Tonner 156km, Western Cape

Amashova Durban Classic 106km, Durban

Satellite Classic, PTA

MTN OFM Classic 107km, OFS

Momentum 94.7 Cycle Challenge 97.4km, Gauteng

Die Burger Cycle Tour 92km, Western Cape

 

These of course exclude the balance of the PPA calender, both MTB and Road, and numerous other races that prefer Racetec's organisation and methodology to the other timing companies.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Brogue

[ccc2]

lots of people already paying their own way from what I hear.

 

My understanding is that see league prize money is down to the league sponsors / organisers, who are not PPA. I'm pretty sure PPA did not have anything to do with my Cyclelab vouchers. PPA are facilitators for the funride / race and organise marshalls, safety aspects, deal with racetec etc. The league, league standings and prizes, prize giving, leaders jerseys etc - none of this is managed by PPA.

 

Please go ahead and put me right on the above. If this is not the case I'm interested to know how it works.

 

thats where it ends - organisers are responsible for everything else.

 

wrt league - the ppa are guilty of allowing their members to be exploited if the only prize that is awarded is a gift voucher.

sponsor or no sponsor, all infrastrucure is in place for a cycle race.

if the funride event also has league status the only additional expense would be officials and maybe an a dedicated ambulance.

league entry fees are payable upfront so income is guaranteed

funrides want league status because it attracts more entries

most events attract 800 riders - league attracts 1000 (where the other 17 to 18000 ppa members are only they would know)(my guess is, very inactive).

working on 300 league cyclist at R150 an event,generates R45 000 less expenses of R7 000 for officials, R1 800 for ambulance, give half of the balance to the organiser leaves you with R18k for prize money.

iow the league event generates its own prize money - throw in a sponsor - someone is making money BUT IT IS MOST DEFINETLY NOT THE CYCLIST.

[ccc2]

Not saying CSA must be simply replaced by PPA. But at the moment it seems that CSA simply wants to replace PPA. Their latest move was to write PPA out of their constitution hence the pending court case.

 

Lets not forget that PPA was created for the recreational cyclists and not the pro cyclist,

 

you're wrong - csa don't want to take over the ppa they want them to be the recreational body within the csa structure.

sascoc want 9 provinces for every sport and insist that the sports bodies constitution reflect that.

all sports bodies will be forced to only have 9 provincial bodies.

ppa were not written out of the constitution by csa

[ccc2]

I'm referring to CSA in it's current form, which is far different from the old SACF. The major difference today is that SACF was there mainly for pro cycling, they had very little to do with the recreational cyclist. Today CSA is climbing into recreational cycling because they know it's the cash cow. Financial gain is the driver, not betterment of the sport. What improvement has CSA done on cycling events or cycling in general for the recreational cyclists. Nothing; nadda Zip, only forced us to pay for recreational lic. and forced events organizors to pay their fees. That is tantamount to extortion in mu book. I go back to my original statement about CSA being another government lap dog imposing a hidden tax on mass participation sport. I wonder when the will start with the golfing fraternity on golf days. We wait in anticipation for GSA to be formed.

then every sporting body in the country is guilty of extortion

[madmarc]

you're wrong - csa don't want to take over the ppa they want them to be the recreational body within the csa structure.

sascoc want 9 provinces for every sport and insist that the sports bodies constitution reflect that.

all sports bodies will be forced to only have 9 provincial bodies.

ppa were not written out of the constitution by csa

 

PPA and CSA: The way forward

 

In February 2012, CSA wrote PPA out of its constitution despite PPA being granted entrenched rights in perpetuity in CSA’s founding constitution of 2004; PPA having been a primary motivator for unification prior to 2004.

 

Amongst others, the CSA founding constitution granted PPA the rights to register our members and run our affairs as we have done since PPA was formed some 30 years ago, including the right to coordinate our funride calendar without requiring pre-approval or sanctioning from CSA.

Since February 2012, PPA has been trying to resolve the issue with CSA through various meetings, emails and other forms of communication, with no forward movement on the matter. In an attempt to finalise the matter, PPA has now filed an application in this regard with the High Court of South Africa.

“We are concerned that cyclists, and cycling as a whole, will be penalized through the lack of finalization of the current situation,” said PPA Chairman Steve Hayward. “We again want to reiterate that PPA did not ask to leave the CSA fold, and are resorting to legal means since all other attempts to resolve the matter have been unsuccessful. We simply want to continue as we have done since 1976, promoting cycling and the rights of cyclists in various ways.”

The founding affidavit can be found at this link.

The Notice of Motion can be found here

 

Speaks for itself!!!!!!

[kandui]

Well, if you think business class travel is expensive, wait til you see the cost of this High Court action. There goes all our CSA and PPA membership fees ...

Attend a PPA AGM and you don't need to ask in this Forum.

Why not call their office and get the Financials?

[kandui]

Huh ?? says who and why must it be Racetec? Cool if you happy, keep PPA in WC though. Not interested in all the politics, i ride any event i want whether sanctioned or not.

 

The Argus is the only race in SA where you MUST have a Racetec chip. I do more Championchip and SAS timed races than Racetec which we would be forced to use. The PPA seeding is of no use to me due to the incestuous relationship of PPA/Racetec.

 

I'm funny that way in that i like freedom of choice.

You don't need a Racetec chip to ride the Argus , or any other event for that matter where Racetec does the timing. If you don't have one, you just don't get a time.