CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[DJR]

..........................................how strong your club structure is, and what kind of people with what interests are involved at the club level. ..................................

 

I am have been involved in several non-cycling clubs over the years. The 1 thing they all have had in common over the last few decades, is DECLINING membership numbers. This is an international thing happening all over the world. It is simply a sign of a changing world and nothing will change it in the short term. People are no longer feeling the need to belong to a club with others of similar interest as they did 20 or 30 years ago. They function more as individuals and get together when they feel like joining up (riding Moonlight Mass, or the Argus). To hope for a growing cycling club structure / culture, is a pipe dream in the modern world. Things like The Hub has taken the place and fulfils the need of a physical club.

 

My 2c.

 

Where this leaves PPA and CSA is another question.

[American Flyers]

I started cycling back in 1983 (10 years old at the time) to ride the then Argus Cycle tour - my older brother came home from school and announced he wanted to to this event! So my father who even won the Argus cycle tour and myself decided we would also start cycling!

 

Part of my training and my independence in life became my bicycle - I use to ride to school (this at the time was a big portion of my training), post schooling studies and even to work - I work in the Strand and lived in Constantia! (60km commute each way). I no longer study and work from home - but I still do cycle! I have 2 half sister on my fathers side - he has never let them ride on the roads - as he feels the roads are way to un safe to cycle on - PPA has failed (maybe with what ever amount of resource they had they could not have succeeded) the cycling community in keeping the roads safe, which I agree should be their main Priority!

 

I don't have any children of my own but I do see far fewer kids riding to school and back - if you have children do you allow them to commute via bicycle to school - if not why not?

You cannot blame PPA for kids safety! I blame ANC because the police and traffic law and taxi are useless nowadays!

Can you explain how can PPA improve cycling safety??

My dream is that we have cycling paths from south suburb to Cape Town next to De Waal drive.... Can't TMP support and PPA build cycling paths...

[dirtrider]

You cannot blame PPA for kids safety! I blame ANC because the police and traffic law and taxi are useless nowadays!

Can you explain how can PPA improve cycling safety??

My dream is that we have cycling paths from south suburb to Cape Town next to De Waal drive.... Can't TMP support and PPA build cycling paths...

 

But still the fact remains that PPA does more to improve cycling safety that what CSA does . Some may feel that is still not enough but they at least make the effort .

[Icycling]

You cannot blame PPA for kids safety! I blame ANC because the police and traffic law and taxi are useless nowadays!

Can you explain how can PPA improve cycling safety??

My dream is that we have cycling paths from south suburb to Cape Town next to De Waal drive.... Can't TMP support and PPA build cycling paths...

 

Did you not see the disclaimer! (maybe with what ever amount of resource they had they could not have succeeded)

 

But their is an event in Australia - similar to the Cycle tour - which all their profits go to employ people just lobby government for cyclist rights and to get better laws / facilities in place for cyclist! They are even suceeding. They don't spend money on unit trust every month!

[JA-Q001]

PPA haters make me chuckle. I happen to have a CSA license, but ONLY coz I partcipate in so-called sanctioned events outside of the Western Cape as well. It's a bit of a cheek for CSA to insist every kid, oom, tannie , ouma and oupa who enjoys participating in an event once every blue moon should be compelled to cough up 75 bucks annually for the privilege of doing so. Health shouldn't be held to ransom, which is exactly what CSA are doing.

 

 

Actually, those people that only ride a race longer than 30km (if I'm correct) needs to pay. They have an option of paying the R35 day licence if they want to do a longer "race" and if they do more than 3 a year, is a better option to take out a licence. You see, the CSA classifies a fun rider as someone that rides less than 3 races a year or less than 30km at a time.

[Headshot]

Good point it's always the lawyers who complicate things

 

Bollocks. Quite the opposite - ditch the legally clueless board members and officials and employ only lawyers and the matter would have been sorted long ago.

 

Go and read the PPA founding affidavit - probably drafted by Lance Burger SC for some clarity on the matter. I doubt CSA has a snowballs chance in winning this one...

[Wannabe]

Did you not see the disclaimer! (maybe with what ever amount of resource they had they could not have succeeded)

 

But their is an event in Australia - similar to the Cycle tour - which all their profits go to employ people just lobby government for cyclist rights and to get better laws / facilities in place for cyclist! They are even suceeding. They don't spend money on unit trust every month!

 

Peter, the problem is that we are dealing with a National Government with a completely different mindset to those of the Australians. Cyclists and their accompaning problems is not a priority to our National Government, neither is the enforcement of the Rules / Laws that is in place to make our roads safer.

The WC Government (with PPA help, or is it the other way round), is busy doing things to try and make our roads safer.

But they also are bound by budgetry constraints ( and other more pressing needs, like those of the poor people in the squatter camps without running water or decent toilets, that weighs far more on their political conscience) There is also political pressure on them to resolve these matters A.S.A.P..

You see where this is going?

 

So what the PPA is already doing for us here in the WC is far more than what the CSA is doing. PERIOD.

[Brogue]

Actually, those people that only ride a race longer than 30km (if I'm correct) needs to pay. They have an option of paying the R35 day licence if they want to do a longer "race" and if they do more than 3 a year, is a better option to take out a licence. You see, the CSA classifies a fun rider as someone that rides less than 3 races a year or less than 30km at a time.

 

Why should ANYONE, irrespective of the distance and frequency, who ONLY rides locally be made to pay a blue penny to a national body? CSA does absolutely nothing for leisure riders, why should they do anything for CSA? Those, like me, who participate in events outside of the Western Cape should pay their dues nationally. So too the league and elite riders with farcical higher aspirations and laughable egos. CSA should learn to leave well enough alone, they're spiting themselves by playing hardball with the biggest leisure cycling association in SA.

[Ward]

Would love to see how everyone would speak to eachother if we used our birth names on here. Some people would soon realise that they actually no nothing about what goes on behind closed doors in our sport and that some people are telling people that have a huge influence over what happens in our sport that theyre wrong.

[JA-Q001]

Why should ANYONE, irrespective of the distance and frequency, who ONLY rides locally be made to pay a blue penny to a national body? CSA does absolutely nothing for leisure riders, why should they do anything for CSA? Those, like me, who participate in events outside of the Western Cape should pay their dues nationally. So too the league and elite riders with farcical higher aspirations and laughable egos. CSA should learn to leave well enough alone, they're spiting themselves by playing hardball with the biggest leisure cycling association in SA.

 

Well, thats the choice YOU as a FUNrIDER make, by participating in an organised event. If you dont like the rules or regulations, then meet up with your buddy and race each other around the block.

[madmarc]

This is true, very true -- but it's not really that simple.

It goes back to what I said about how strong your club structure is, and what kind of people with what interests are involved at the club level. Which is why I say running one system through CSA which covers such a broad church of issues and interest, and squeezing it the way CSA is with its particular constitution and agenda, does not work. And also why I say more of us need to find out what's going on and get involved, one way or another.

Getting involved means thinking about how cycling works in this country -- it's not a sport like golf or even soccer, although many sporting codes have similar problems like access to venues. And I'd love to know how recreational cycling and "fun" rides are run, in relation to national sports bodies in the UK and Oz, say.

You also say that "PPA needs to negotiate". If my memory is right, and I'm sure it is, this has also been part of the problem. From the start (when one, unified cycling association was being negotiated and the constitution set up) PPA was involved in these negotiations and has been all along. Eventually an agreement was reached and a constitution written up to reflect that. CSA later changed the constitution. Their "right" to do so was on the basis of representatives, and even though PPA represents a large number of cyclists, both in the Western Cape and elsewhere, their vote does not reflect the number of members that they have.

I really don't know how this should work, but it clearly is not working the way it is right now. Do you think PPA is really that frivolous to take the CSA to court? It would be like saying each province in this country has one vote for President of SA, so forget how many people live there. Would you sit back if SA's Constitution was changed against your interests which have been written into it?

I hope PPA Exco, or someone with proper info and insight, does come along, correct what I may have got wrong here, and answer some of these questions. But where too is CSA's voice in this?

 

They have the largest vote, according to this taken from Special Constitutional congress of 19/02/2012. Maybe it's changed since then....dunno

 

17990 members = 15 votes out of total of 83

[Ward]

In reply to Icycling . It is amazing to me that you as a “Pro”cyclist seem to think that the WPCA can continue to put on league races with more and more prize money. You obviously do not know how they were able to do this for the winter league .These races were put on by volunteers sacrificing their time so that you could race. That is why they were able to have that kind of prize money. It seems you as a pro cyclist would like more volunteers to be passionate about your sport so that you can earn more prize money while you participate in your sport and they do the work. In fact it actually costs the volunteers money to get to these events and the meetings they need to organise them etc. How’s this for an idea take some of your prize money and give it back to the WPCA so that they can send the youth and development teams to the youth festival.

 

The guys in the WPCA that control the prize money are directly linked to the money going to the youth festivals, I represented WP at the last Eric van Enter there ever was 3years ago, ive been back up to Gariep for the last 2 years and went to Oudtshoorn last year. WP have had atleast 2team(6riders) in age categories from U14 all the way to Junior(U18) yes, WP struggle to get money every year to pay for those whom arent as fortunate as myself. But trust me if the WPCA board thought that some of the money made from Winter League needed to be used for youth festivals they wouldnt hesitate.

[Icycling]

Peter, the problem is that we are dealing with a National Government with a completely different mindset to those of the Australians. Cyclists and their accompaning problems is not a priority to our National Government, neither is the enforcement of the Rules / Laws that is in place to make our roads safer.

The WC Government (with PPA help, or is it the other way round), is busy doing things to try and make our roads safer.

But they also are bound by budgetry constraints ( and other more pressing needs, like those of the poor people in the squatter camps without running water or decent toilets, that weighs far more on their political conscience) There is also political pressure on them to resolve these matters A.S.A.P..

You see where this is going?

 

So what the PPA is already doing for us here in the WC is far more than what the CSA is doing. PERIOD.

 

Not sure why what PPA versa what CSA is been compared here?

 

CSA as stated earlier is basically the "governments cycling arm" - granted the "racing" part - and as you stated in the Western Cape governments is doing quite a bit in building bike paths!

 

Granted you cannot expect PPA to fit the bill of government in building infrastructure - their they just don't have enough rands as that would run into 100 of millions - thus the disclaimer (maybe with what ever amount of resource they had they could not have succeeded). But lobbing government thats a different story! Possibly lobbying government through CSA would have more success on a National scale.

 

On the other hand maybe government just want PPA to come to the party in the form of CSA and help with the racing side - possibly a bill they could significantly fit - after all it is governments overall sporting government department dictating to CSA. Government will take care of the rest - no doubt at a very slow pace depending on the province! Possibly 1 of the reasons for PPA getting a TAX concession.

 

Their are a whole lot off issue here and I am not prepared to write a whole paper on this matter!

[Brogue]

Well, thats the choice YOU as a FUNrIDER make, by participating in an organised event. If you dont like the rules or regulations, then meet up with your buddy and race each other around the block.

 

I have 18000 buddies, right here in the Western Cape, under the umbrella of the PPA. We participate regularly in organised events, and we enjoy the status quo.

[ccc2]

Bollocks. Quite the opposite - ditch the legally clueless board members and officials and employ only lawyers and the matter would have been sorted long ago.

 

Go and read the PPA founding affidavit - probably drafted by Lance Burger SC for some clarity on the matter. I doubt CSA has a snowballs chance in winning this one...

the same Lance Burger SC who wrote an article in the Argus advocating that cyclist be allowed to skip red traffic lights and stop streets if no other vehicles are in the vicinity. do you really think any person involved in the legal profession is going to tell the WHOLE TRUTH. they only tell what suits their argument.

[gogo@]

They have the largest vote, according to this taken from Special Constitutional congress of 19/02/2012. Maybe it's changed since then....dunno

 

17990 members = 15 votes out of total of 83

OK, then I'm corrected on that one, which is what I asked for. But all these votes meant nothing when it came down to changing the constitution in 2012.