championchip entering scam?

[ffff]

Same with kremetart every year

[Wez-O]

I took this up with the Argus organisers a couple of years ago.

Their reply was that they would use championchip results in their seeding if it was available to them.

But apparently Colin of championchip want to be paid (again) for releasing the results to them!!

Bunch of muppets!

[madmarc]

think the reason for poor response is the Nissan event the day before ... bad planning, we're doing both cause we need more training

 

I agree but Nissan is now full. We also doing both, good training for stage races and of course trying to see what it's like to be HARD CORE

[madmarc]

As mentioned earlier, here is the repsonse from CC.

 

It's a lot to absorb, but they have gone into a lot of detail in defending their position. I will revert with a proper response once i have completly understood what they have said.

 

I would be interested to hear comments from other Hubbers who are ultimatly the customers or potential customers for CC. If there is anything you would like me to include in my response then please feel free to post them here or pm me.

 

"Thank you for your query. I must admit that I am more that a little surprised at your interpretation of our system and the fact that you do not see the obvious benefits to you as a customer. Hopefully I can clarify this issue for you.

In our business we offer a sophisticated online entry and race administration solution for events, which I am sure you appreciate has a substantial cost in developing and managing. As a successful business we obviously offer these service to make a profit and justifiably are entitled to do just as any business is. We believe that the services that we offer are of outstanding value to customers like yourself, as the alternative methods of entry are typically more costly to administer and less efficient. Our online entry service, like all others on the market, charge a fee for the use of the system. When we set-up this service for a customer we can configure the system in many different ways to meet the events entry requirements. One of the elements that we can configure is how our fees for the use of the system are charged, and therefore this is often set differently from one event to the other, however all events are still paying our fees.

The fees we charge are for a transaction, are negotiated with events, and determined based on volume of transactions and services required. In the case of the Dunblane event our fee for our services is R7.50 + 4.5% of the transaction value. This is our income to ChampionChip and the respective company delivering the service to the event. When an event chooses to use our system we offer them the choice of configuring the system so that our fees are either included in the entry fee that they set for the event or alternatively they can reflect them separately and more transparently to the entrants. Either way we are still charging and receiving our fees.

If we look at the pros and cons of each respective method of billing our fees, I am sure that you will see that the transparent display and billing of these fees is a total "no brainer" in regards the benefit to the consumer, thus my surprise at your enquiry and interpretation.

1. It goes without saying that if the event has to include our fee in the determination of the entry fee, the entry fee will then be higher than if they did not include this cost, therefore the assumption that us showing this fee in a transparent manner is having a negative impact on the cost of entry is not correct. If the event does choose to add our fees to the entry fee when setting the entry fee, the entrant typically pays more for the following reason. Let us use as an example of an event with a Entry fee of R190. Our charges on this entry for a single person entering would be R16,45 resulting in a total entry fee of R206,45 when using our system. If the event wants to receive the R190 entry fee but have to deduct these charges from that R190, they would then only be receiving R173,55 and not the R190 they need to receive. Based on normal sound business, if the event then needs to receive R190 and still pay our fees, they would logically need to increase the entry fee to approximately R206,45. I am sure you must agree that you will never see a race entry with such a odd amount, and this is because what the event would typically do is round these amounts up therefore making their entry R210 to ensure that they then cover our fees and still get the R190 entry fee that they need. It is interesting that you say in your e-mail below that you would in future not support our online entry when it would charge you R206,45 but you would be happy to entry if it rather charged you R210 and hide the costs from you.
   
2. The issue is also exaggerated when you have somebody entering multiple participants, for example a family. Because our fees are based on per transaction, the entrant only pays R7,50 + 4,5% regardless of the number of entries. Let us assume the same entry fee of R190 and say I am going to enter the race for myself, my wife and my two children. On the transparent method the cost would be R760 plus our fee R42,04 giving a total of R802,04. On your preferred method of the event organizer building our fees into the entry fee and charging you R210, the same family would then pay R840 for the same entry, which is adding R37,96 to the cost of entry compared to the more transparent method.
   
3. Another problem with an event costing our fees into the entry fee that they set is that people not using our online entry system to enter the event are effectively also paying our fees to the event as these have then been budgeted into what will be a higher entry fee although they are not making use of the service.
   

Ultimately it is the events choice as to how they want to bill these fees, and we as a company recommend the transparent method of charging our fees rather than hiding these in a higher entry fee. We do this in the interest of the participant as it clearly reduces the cost to them as illustrated above. Non business minded people may say that the event must absorb that cost out of the entry fee, but such a comment would be based on total ignorance as it is basic business principles that to ensure you make the income that is required you need to cost the expenses into determining the total fee to be charged, consequently including our fees into an entry fee will increase the entry fee the event needs to charge as explained.

In regards the legality, there is nothing illegal or immoral with us charging a fee for our services just as VISA charge for their services. The determination of our fees are, as in normal business, based on our costs and we unashamedly strive to make a profit by delivering a quality service, in the most cost effective way we can, to our customers. Any customer who would rather use an alternative method of entry which typically would be more costly than our service obviously has the right to make that choice. Why you, however, would campaign members of the community to not use a system that is clearly structured to be transparent and save them money is totally beyond me as I am sure anybody would rather pay R206,45 with transparency of what that are pay for, rather than R210 for exactly the same service and no transparency . If you believe that you are not paying for this service when you enter an event that has the fees included in the entry fee, you are mistaken. Most companies offering such services charge between 10% and 30% which is obviously budgeted into determining the entry fee to be charged.

Our fees are clearly illustrated prior to you accepting the conditions of entry and processing your payment which ensures total transparency and enables any entrant to not proceed with payment if they are not happy with paying for this service. Our system is currently used for over 600 000 entrants per year in many events around the world and is fully compliant with the PCI (Payment Card Industry) Standards compliant.

I trust this clarifies how our system operates in the interest of reducing cost to customers and offering total transparency.

Kind Regards"

Colin Hegter

ChampionChip Africa

[Pure Savage]

Wow that's a long response. It probably makes it quick for their accounts to do it this way.

 

I am now grateful of racetec in western cape.

[Stretch]

What a long winded response....transparent as I see it is....paying the price advertised without unforseen costs...I am really surprised that people still use champion chip....thank goodness we have better alternatives here in kzn

[lone.*]

Wow that's a long response. It probably makes it quick for their accounts to do it this way.

 

I am now grateful of racetec in western cape.

Wow that's a long response. It probably makes it quick for their accounts to do it this way.

 

I am now grateful of racetec in western cape.

What does racetec charge the organiser per entry that you pay?

[Tumbleweed]

As mentioned earlier, here is the repsonse from CC.

 

It's a lot to absorb, but they have gone into a lot of detail in defending their position. I will revert with a proper response once i have completly understood what they have said.

 

I would be interested to hear comments from other Hubbers who are ultimatly the customers or potential customers for CC. If there is anything you would like me to include in my response then please feel free to post them here or pm me.

 

"Thank you for your query. I must admit that I am more that a little surprised at your interpretation of our system and the fact that you do not see the obvious benefits to you as a customer. Hopefully I can clarify this issue for you.

In our business we offer a sophisticated online entry and race administration solution for events, which I am sure you appreciate has a substantial cost in developing and managing. As a successful business we obviously offer these service to make a profit and justifiably are entitled to do just as any business is. We believe that the services that we offer are of outstanding value to customers like yourself, as the alternative methods of entry are typically more costly to administer and less efficient. Our online entry service, like all others on the market, charge a fee for the use of the system. When we set-up this service for a customer we can configure the system in many different ways to meet the events entry requirements. One of the elements that we can configure is how our fees for the use of the system are charged, and therefore this is often set differently from one event to the other, however all events are still paying our fees.

The fees we charge are for a transaction, are negotiated with events, and determined based on volume of transactions and services required. In the case of the Dunblane event our fee for our services is R7.50 + 4.5% of the transaction value. This is our income to ChampionChip and the respective company delivering the service to the event. When an event chooses to use our system we offer them the choice of configuring the system so that our fees are either included in the entry fee that they set for the event or alternatively they can reflect them separately and more transparently to the entrants. Either way we are still charging and receiving our fees.

If we look at the pros and cons of each respective method of billing our fees, I am sure that you will see that the transparent display and billing of these fees is a total "no brainer" in regards the benefit to the consumer, thus my surprise at your enquiry and interpretation.

1. It goes without saying that if the event has to include our fee in the determination of the entry fee, the entry fee will then be higher than if they did not include this cost, therefore the assumption that us showing this fee in a transparent manner is having a negative impact on the cost of entry is not correct. If the event does choose to add our fees to the entry fee when setting the entry fee, the entrant typically pays more for the following reason. Let us use as an example of an event with a Entry fee of R190. Our charges on this entry for a single person entering would be R16,45 resulting in a total entry fee of R206,45 when using our system. If the event wants to receive the R190 entry fee but have to deduct these charges from that R190, they would then only be receiving R173,55 and not the R190 they need to receive. Based on normal sound business, if the event then needs to receive R190 and still pay our fees, they would logically need to increase the entry fee to approximately R206,45. I am sure you must agree that you will never see a race entry with such a odd amount, and this is because what the event would typically do is round these amounts up therefore making their entry R210 to ensure that they then cover our fees and still get the R190 entry fee that they need. It is interesting that you say in your e-mail below that you would in future not support our online entry when it would charge you R206,45 but you would be happy to entry if it rather charged you R210 and hide the costs from you.
   
2. The issue is also exaggerated when you have somebody entering multiple participants, for example a family. Because our fees are based on per transaction, the entrant only pays R7,50 + 4,5% regardless of the number of entries. Let us assume the same entry fee of R190 and say I am going to enter the race for myself, my wife and my two children. On the transparent method the cost would be R760 plus our fee R42,04 giving a total of R802,04. On your preferred method of the event organizer building our fees into the entry fee and charging you R210, the same family would then pay R840 for the same entry, which is adding R37,96 to the cost of entry compared to the more transparent method.
   
3. Another problem with an event costing our fees into the entry fee that they set is that people not using our online entry system to enter the event are effectively also paying our fees to the event as these have then been budgeted into what will be a higher entry fee although they are not making use of the service.
   

Ultimately it is the events choice as to how they want to bill these fees, and we as a company recommend the transparent method of charging our fees rather than hiding these in a higher entry fee. We do this in the interest of the participant as it clearly reduces the cost to them as illustrated above. Non business minded people may say that the event must absorb that cost out of the entry fee, but such a comment would be based on total ignorance as it is basic business principles that to ensure you make the income that is required you need to cost the expenses into determining the total fee to be charged, consequently including our fees into an entry fee will increase the entry fee the event needs to charge as explained.

In regards the legality, there is nothing illegal or immoral with us charging a fee for our services just as VISA charge for their services. The determination of our fees are, as in normal business, based on our costs and we unashamedly strive to make a profit by delivering a quality service, in the most cost effective way we can, to our customers. Any customer who would rather use an alternative method of entry which typically would be more costly than our service obviously has the right to make that choice. Why you, however, would campaign members of the community to not use a system that is clearly structured to be transparent and save them money is totally beyond me as I am sure anybody would rather pay R206,45 with transparency of what that are pay for, rather than R210 for exactly the same service and no transparency . If you believe that you are not paying for this service when you enter an event that has the fees included in the entry fee, you are mistaken. Most companies offering such services charge between 10% and 30% which is obviously budgeted into determining the entry fee to be charged.

Our fees are clearly illustrated prior to you accepting the conditions of entry and processing your payment which ensures total transparency and enables any entrant to not proceed with payment if they are not happy with paying for this service. Our system is currently used for over 600 000 entrants per year in many events around the world and is fully compliant with the PCI (Payment Card Industry) Standards compliant.

I trust this clarifies how our system operates in the interest of reducing cost to customers and offering total transparency.

Kind Regards"

Colin Hegter

ChampionChip Africa

 

If transparent, why are the extra costs not included in the mail that was sent out?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Tumbleweed

[cruiser]

Perhaps in future an option of whether you would like to use their service. from this post i think that if you do not want the extra cost as many already complain about the cost of entering a race then make it optional. (Burn cream on)

[djsam]

I am more confused .. by the cheaper entry for women? lol not complaining just confused

[lone.*]

The mail advertises the race and not the cc service which is the entry facility. That is what you pay not to stand in line on the morning of the race. You can rock up and ride. We must surely pay for a service.

[lone.*]

Carousel is on 9 August which is woman's day. Make sense to give them a discount.

[djsam]

Carousel is on 9 August which is woman's day. Make sense to give them a discount.

ahhhh that would make sense! thank goodness i wasnt complaining!

[lone.*]

The Cyclelab entry service fee is more e than xpensive that of CC. Ask an organiser. What does ASG charge per entry. Most of these charges are added to the entry fee.

[Dirtbreath]

Man, that is possible the most condescending letter I have ever read. Freaking Charles Dickens paid by the word. Obviously.

[TALUS]

So Colin - you start by assuming the organiser will round up the amount and then continue the whole tirade by using that assumption to prove you are cheaper!! Tread carefully and dont treat us like fools - we are your target market and we can hurt you if we start getting pissed. R16.45 x 600 000 can dissapear quickly....