Hardening your rear cassette increase life expectancy??

[orsum]

Good Morning All,

 

Good maintenance is known to increase the life of your chain and associated parts.

But can we get a better life span using a well-known process of hardening and tempering of metal.

 

I am looking at improving the life expectance of known wearing parts on bikes. Lubrication will be next. Nothing like reinventing the wheel excuse the pun.

 

To my limited knowledge the amount of hardening of a metal is based on the carbon content of the steel.

 

The more carbon the harder you can make it. (Within limits)

 

In order to increase the life expectance of a cassette does anybody have an opinion or knowledge of the process they use or the metal the cassettes are made from.

 

Heating and then rapid quenching in water or salt water several times to harden the metal (make it brittle)

 

This is followed by the process of tempering which requires heating to a lower temperature and then letting the metal cool at a slow rate (makes it tough) could increase the life of your cassette.

 

I would think manufacturing these days are keeping the cost down by not and not harden them to last too long. (Only my opinion)

 

Benefit to them it keeps the cost of manufacturing down. Effect on consumer is excessive wear and increase replacements.

 

Just think of the money you could save if you only ever replace the chain,

 

Come to think of it do the same to the chain!!!

 

 

orsum

[quintonb]

Hi.

 

Firstly you have the hardening process correct.

Cassette 's and chains are already in the hardened state when we purchase them.

Top end cassette' s also have a nickel or chrome type coating to increase the hardeness in the contact area. The coating is thus harder than the base material.

If what you are proposing is to harden the cassette even more, you would have to remove the coating and then temper and reharden the cassette blades, then temper them down to a higher Rockwell condition.

You would have to know exactly what steel was used in order to do this. Also certain steels have a max hardness they can reach.

For the effort and time it would require to do your own R&D it may not be worth it.

Edited September 8, 2013 by quintonb

[mudda]

You probably need internal gear hubs:

 

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/

 

Single speed reliability and life span, with the gears

[Joe Low]

Your assumption is that the manufacturers are not producing the best possible product and that amateurs can improve on it. If you're not an engineer or metalurgist, i wouldnt get into it.

[nolipoli]

I wouldn't do it. These processes are carefully controlled, and getting the balance right between hardness and not being too brittle is not something for an amateur to take on, especially without knowing the exact alloy.

 

If you want long lasting, buy a cheaper cassette. Deore level will have steel cogs which last longer.

Higher end Aluminium cassettes will have been heat treated optimally.

[mudda]

then again, if they did bring an "very long life" cassette to market, they would be out of business ... so if they did have one, why market it ?

 

The above logic can be applied to many consumer products that you need to repurchase ... think light bulbs, batteries, etc etc.

[orsum]

Thanks for some interesting comments.

Does that mean putting the present micron thick coating on the present cassette works?

Would it be better to use a ceramic coating onto a better substructure would that work better?

The present coating is also a bit of a bling. Yes it is harder but not very thick so how long was it made to last!!!

 

I think the manufactures know exactly what they are making and how often we need to replace these well made soft ??? products.

I have two thoughts light weight vs long life parts and Aluminium vs stainless steel car bodies.

I also agree that it may be not cost effective for me as an individual but why not look at it.

Still would like to know what metal they are using.

 

orsum

[Lone_Ranger]

Hardening also has the side effect of making the metal brittle. U might start getting teeth breaking off instead of wearing down.

[orsum]

Two things are require in the process hardening and then tempering.

 

Yes I agree incorrect process means faulty components.

 

orsum

[TALUS]

Interesting thinking. Many very educated guys on the Hub - hope they respond....!

[Joe Low]

Interesting thinking. Many very educated guys on the Hub - hope they respond....!

 

We did!

The follow-up point to tbe 'built-in redundancy' argument, is that it leaves room for new competitors so market forces should close those gaps.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Joe Low

[orsum]

I was told that wax for my car was going to cost me 20k plus I was also told I could not make it any better than a product costing as I said 20K.

 

For the past two years I have been making and using my own home made armature wax!!!! on my very Black Audi S4 and rare 1996 Audi S2 and in my opinion it is much better than anything I have ever purchased.

 

Is it as good as the 20K product made from the same stuff that I use that open for debate.

 

Mine is a mixture of yellow Carnauba wax, Bees wax and Montan wax including additives for beeding etc.

 

The principle for me is seeing if I can.

 

Will I succeed I don’t know but I can try

.

Joe I agree that the market will determine the price.

 

orsum

Edited September 8, 2013 by orsum

[Johan Bornman]

Good luck with your hardening venture.

 

Please remember to carefully drill out the rivets that hold the (case-hardened) cassettes onto a spider. Then gently remove the nickel or chrome plating from the steel rings but don't use the same process on the titanium sprockets, it will damage them. Then heat treat the individual sprockets nicely to anneal the existing hard shell. Let it cool a couple of times (I'm sure you know the cool-down periods and the exact starting temps). Once it is soft, heat and quench as suggested. Then reassemble the cassette using new rivets, repackage it and sell it at a price at which we'll all agree to give it a go.

 

Oops! Sorry, I forgot to remind you to re-plate the carbon steel sprockets otherwise they'll rust.

[Johan Bornman]

/

 

Still would like to know what metal they are using.

 

 

I gave you a hint in my previous post but here's how to find out. Take a sprocket to a grinder and grind it. Report back on the spark colour. The resident metallurgists will tell you or you can google it.

[TALUS]

We did (Joe Low BA (hons); CA; multinational steel co. Director).

The follow-up point to tbe 'built-in redundancy' argument, is that it leaves room for new competitors so market forces should close those gaps.

Didn't mean to belittle anyone. Unfortunately I do not know from what background you come and thus made a honest mistake.

[koukie]

I was told that wax for my car was going to cost me 20k plus I was also told I could not make it any better than a product costing as I said 20K.

Wax that cost R20 000? are you serious, whats in it?