Ironman...not just about the refund, why not sub?

[JGR]

Insurance will be per number of athletes so that doesn't matter. A shirt doesn't cost R4,250. Anyways with the amount of non-finishers there will be plenty left of all sizes. Admin fee? To change a name? They only print the stickers the week before...

 

I don't think this justifies not refunding any amount.

 

Agree that if the event is sold out then subs should be allowed. Ask a admin fee if you must. I mean you have already made your money. Why not refund people but then accept the full entry of others?

 

If I do get injured I wont even tell them... Why? SO they cant quickly put another guy in my place and make another R4,250 (cause I guarantee you they will).

I was just suggesting we dont know their expenses or regulations, not that those are the actual reasons. Admin fee to change a name is not what will happen. I agree changing one or two names sounds simple - but what happens the week before when 200 people realise that arent ready and want subs - If IM had to pay them all out they might not have time to recoup the money which would mean higher prices for all next season.

 

All im saying is I dont think they are doing it out of malice and there might be more at play than we know.

[sluiper]

I think the only instance they should give a refund would be if there is a waiting list and you pay a substantial cancellation fee (e.g. 50% of entry fee). In other words, you don't handle the substitution yourself, the next person on the waiting list gets your slot.

 

This would negate the situation where people do a "substitution" but they're actually selling the entry at a markup, as well as situations where people enter and then just cancel because they didn't train.

Edited October 29, 2013 by sluiper

[SwissVan]

IDEA !!

 

As part of the entry package / process give entrants the option to take out "insurance" for an entry fee refund based on certain principals.

 

i.e. If you take out the insurance and later / closer to the event you cannot take part for a valid reason and can provide proof (within the principals laid out in the entry rules), you claim a refund.

[silvertemplar]

Meh, if the Comrades can do substitutions then there's no reason the Ironman can't do so also.

 

The substitution rule is an extension of the Comrades Marathon Race rules and must be read in conjunction with the general race rules which forms an integral part of the entry form. The rule governs the process of withdrawing one athlete from the Comrades Marathon and replacing the fully paid athlete’s entry with another athlete’s entry and credentials. It is the responsibility of the substitute athlete to find an athlete who intends to or has withdrawn from the race.

 

Substitution Period

The Substitution process open on 1 April 2013 and all applications must reach the CMA by no later than 30 April 2013.

 

The substitute must pay an administration fee of R100.00 (One Hundred Rand) to the CMA.

 

Anyway, i saw someone posted a whole set of rules about withdrawals/substitutions for Ironman? Was that just a proposal?

[silvertemplar]

The World Triathlon Corporation will continue its “Race Transfer Policy” for all European and South African Ironman and Ironman 70.3 races in 2013. This initiative has been shaped by the opinions of hundreds of Ironman athletes.

Effective since 2012, the World Triathlon Corporation (WTC) will substantially change its withdrawal policy for all* European and South African Ironman and Ironman 70.3 races. For an administration fee of R290, athletes can transfer their race entry regardless of their reason, and all athletes already entered, or signing up for an Ironman and Ironman 70.3 race prior to December 31st 2013 are automatically eligible.

WTC’s existing policy which allows for an athlete’s cancellation of a race remains untouched by the new program.

IRONMAN SA WITHDRAWAL: OPTION 1 - REFUND

• Until 6 December 2013 – 50% refund on entry fee
  
• From 7 December 2013 – 7 February 2014 – 25% refund on entry fee
  
• 8 February 2014 and after – 0% refund on entry fee
  

To submit your refund request, please contact Sharon Talbot on sharon.talbot@ironman.com.

WITHDRAWAL: OPTION 2 - TRANSFER OF SLOT

 

You may now choose to Transfer your slot upon withdrawal from the event.

• all athletes that sign up for an Ironman or Ironman 70.3 race in Europe or South Africa before December 31st 2013 are automatically enrolled. Athletes can still withdraw and receive a refund according to the existing rules. However, the race entries can now be transferred up until two months prior to the date of the race the athlete originally signed up for.
  
• it is not possible to transfer an entry more than once. Race entry transfers are R290 regardless of the reason for the athlete’s transfer.
  
• entries for races before August 25th 2013 can only be transferred to races within the same calendar year. Entries for races after August 25th can be transferred to any race prior to June 30th 2014.
  
• race entries cannot be transferred to any sold-out Ironman or Ironman 70.3 event.
  
• upgrades between Ironman 70.3 and Ironman races are possible, the fee of R290 and the difference in the entry fee will be charged.
  
• it is also possible to downgrade a race, although the difference in entry fee will not be refunded.
  
• race entries can NOT be transferred to another athlete.
  
• entries can NOT be transferred to the same event in the following year.
  
• It is possible to transfer to the Ironman 70.3 South Africa 2014 event, provided the event is not sold out, your transfer request is submitted before close of registration, and within the stipulated transfer deadlines.
  

Transfer Policy deadlines

 

Transfers must be made before midnight on 7 February 2014. No Transfers are allowed after this date.

 

 

 

I think 6 weeks before the event is reasonable

 

 

 

 

^^^^^^

 

/discussion ? What am i missing? Doesn't above rules apply in the OPs case? Problem solved?

Edited October 29, 2013 by silvertemplar

[sluiper]

^^^^^^

 

/discussion ? What am i missing? Doesn't above rules apply in the OPs case? Problem solved?

 

Read closely. "Transfer" means you can transfer the entry to another race, e.g. Ironman Switzerland or whatever, not to another athlete.

[JGR]

Meh, if the Comrades can do substitutions then there's no reason the Ironman can't do so also.

 

 

 

Anyway, i saw someone posted a whole set of rules about withdrawals/substitutions for Ironman? Was that just a proposal?

No - it was copy and pasted from their website

 

Comrades is organised locally - Ironman is a multinational based in the US

 

They have contracts with suppliers and have cut off dates for changes.

 

The number are not printed locally

[Azi]

This is the first time its been sold out - perhaps it was not expected. I also dont see it as lacking empathy as there is a policy in place - it just doesnt last until the hour before the race.

 

Ive lost a full entry due to an injury, it sucked, more than losing the money so I can speak from a place of knowledge. I didnt feel they lacked empathy. It was an accident and would be unfair to hold them liable.

 

I would agree if the event was not sold out, or if the entrant could not be replaced. Its when the organisers profit out of your injury by reselling your entry at full price without you getting any recompense that I feel the lack of empathy creeps in.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Azi

[Thug]

And the above rules apply to Ironman events not 5150's (although it's the same organisation in SA).

[JGR]

I would agree if the event was not sold out, or if the entrant could not be replaced. Its when the organisers profit out of your injury by reselling your entry at full price without you getting any recompense that I feel the lack of empathy creeps in.

No entries are sold unless there is a withdrawal once the event is full. So my entry was not re-sold at a late stage, so there was no athlete using a hand drawn number in my place and they did not get 2 entries fees for one athlete. Having subs would make them more money so the point of them being only about profit is moot

[Foxbat]

Yup, been there done that. Broke fibula 4 weeks before race last year. You can scream blue murder and you still wont get anything out of them. Sorry I lie, they said I can volunteer as a helper which I did with broken fibula and all. Never again though with all the money they have they treat the volunteers like ****. But still its an event that I love doing so forked out the R4230.00 for next year and got my slot. Somethings in life you just have to suck up and get on with it. Just my few pennies worth.

[JGR]

And the above rules apply to Ironman events not 5150's (although it's the same organisation in SA).

The OP initially used Ironman and I think the discussion from the other day has carried on here. My post was in reponse to a specific question about the IMSA policy in realtion to the Ironman ... all about the money

Edited October 29, 2013 by JGR

[JGR]

Yup, been there done that. Broke fibula 4 weeks before race last year. You can scream blue murder and you still wont get anything out of them. Sorry I lie, they said I can volunteer as a helper which I did with broken fibula and all. Never again though with all the money they have they treat the volunteers like ****. But still its an event that I love doing so forked out the R4230.00 for next year and got my slot. Somethings in life you just have to suck up and get on with it. Just my few pennies worth.

In your case - did you expect a refund and what were you told?

[Foxbat]

In your case - did you expect a refund and what were you told?

No no, didn't want a refund just a transfer but got told I was out the transfer date? Just found them very unhelpful. A kind of tough luck pal attitude. I didn't take it much further and accepted that's the way things go.

[pd2dk]

Just an update. My wife saw surgeon this morning and all is fine and on the way to recovery. Stitches are out and he gave ok for light training. She still can't cycle on the road or swim properly, but she can kick while floating on her back and cycle on stationary bike (that someone just dropped off at our house, people are great!!)...she's even contemplating just showing up and racing...it is the organizers problem to assign life guards to her to guide and helpers for cycling, the running part she can walk...maybe she can still make the cut-offs!...but yes not worth it to screw up rest of swimming life just to prove a point! Thanks for all the positive replies to the post.

 

O yes and still no word from organizers. I know "race" is Sunday, so they are probably too busy running their "business" to worry about one "client"...excuse the sarcasm, but this is not a sport - as I picked up from the replies...They have not even offered to send her the goodie bag, maybe we should just drive the 80k's to register and pick it up...but yes spending more money just to prove a point seems silly.

 

To anyone racing on Sunday, may it be all you expected and enjoy it to the maximum! Remember it's about the running! Heard commentator once said "Swim and bike for the show, run for the dough!"

[JGR]

No no, didn't want a refund just a transfer but got told I was out the transfer date? Just found them very unhelpful. A kind of tough luck pal attitude. I didn't take it much further and accepted that's the way things go.

I hear you. Change the things you cant accept (not enter) or accept the things you cannot change (risk an injury a few months out)