Rogue riders: how to find a workable solution?

[Cassie]

This entire thread is both very interesting and alarming to me. I'm part of a small group in the Ladismith area looking into ways of opening up local MTB trails around the Klein Karoo. Many of the factors mentioned here i.e. what's in it for the farm owner , how to control access, indemnity issues, rescuing an injured rider etc etc - too many to mention here - are going through our minds. I'm not sure who on this forum/TheHub has the most experience of setting up clubs/trail building within a structured system but I'd really like to open discussions with like-minded people for the benefit of all MTBers who'd appreciate having access to some awesome trails around Ladismith!!!

 

Try affiliate to IMBA...or their local equivalent - Amarider (like we did). Meurant will gladly give you the necessary information and advice. Best to start off on a sound footing...

It will be great to have more trails opening up in different areas. SA is just a treasure trove when it comes to MTB trail potential!!

[Cassie]

There is a road going from rathby to anondale rd. Lyngrove said I can cycling long it. I only do this for commute to work.

 

as for your 5min from home, I have a MUCH beter play ground even closer now and I paid lot more for a membership there cause it is worth it to me. Your clubs argument of number of coffee is what a membership cost is not valid for me. It like to say you can pay R500k for an Uno cause it get you to work. Yes it does but it still not worth that money. I have seen you money distribution agree to at the AGM so for me only wanting to ride some of your trail would have paid the MTB = 37% of your membership fee.

 

Jonkershoek year permit is R200 per person, R300 per family of 4 and it give you access to some other cape pine places as well. That is worth it as it has the best trails in the Cape.

 

AND do not stress I don't ride your trails anymore. I have no need to or want to anymore.

 

I guess you are also of the opinion that trails maintain themself + there are trail fairies that miraculously also produce new sections and routes...

AND that trail maintenance and building is below your stature?

 

Good luck with Jonkershoek..I'm sure they are happy to have your membership. Please do me a favour and do your bit in maintaining their trails, and by not littering your GU packets on route; be curteous to fellow MTB'ers you should meet on the trail. it's probably the ONLY place around here where you can ride without a MTB board on display...

[BigDL]

 

This is the core of the problem. Being lenient. I do not believe education and requests to join a club will make any difference. In fact it will encourage rogue riding when they know that there will be no harsh actions. Rogue riders know they are rogue, they need a proper "moering".

 

Yup, I am sure landowners will love dealing with the fallout of trespassers getting moered on their land. A couple if charges laid at the police station because of assault, maybe a bit of local press coverage and then let's see how your solution solved the problem.

[SoftTail]

Ok, I am a land owner with great single track potential on my land that you, the MTB club/community, want to access.

 

You are welcome but here is my non-negotiable starting point.

 

Riding on my land is a privilege. Not a right. It is your responsibility as a club/community to do whatever is required to protect that privilege by enforcing the agreed rules, not mine.

 

If this is acceptable, and you are able to ensure full compliance, we have a deal. If not, no deal.

[whattingh]

I guess you are also of the opinion that trails maintain themself + there are trail fairies that miraculously also produce new sections and routes...

AND that trail maintenance and building is below your stature?

 

Good luck with Jonkershoek..I'm sure they are happy to have your membership. Please do me a favour and do your bit in maintaining their trails, and by not littering your GU packets on route; be curteous to fellow MTB'ers you should meet on the trail. it's probably the ONLY place around here where you can ride without a MTB board on display...

 

by this response I can clearly see you have no idea who I am. I have helped to build new trails and done maintenance. I have never touch a GU in my life and your wrong about the bike boards.

Place to ride without bike board:

Jonkershoek

eden

gravity spot

Grabouw MTO

lebanon

oak valley

welvanpas

delvera

tokai

number of the tygerberg trails

contermanskloof

parts of table mountain national park

 

some no that close yes but some well worth the drive.

[VicanZA]

So if u not part of a cool club are u a rogue rider? I ride on my own or with a mate, we don't litter, we close gates, help other riders....

 

I having a problem with the lose definition of this term on this forum. Can someone clear it up?

 

I have no interest in joining a club as I find most MTB club riders feel it's their right to ride both lanes of jeep track as slow as they can while having a chat.... 8 rows deep with girlfriends and wife's pushing up the rear!

[Caerus]

So if u not part of a cool club are u a rogue rider? I ride on my own or with a mate, we don't litter, we close gates, help other riders....

 

I having a problem with the lose definition of this term on this forum. Can someone clear it up?

 

I have no interest in joining a club as I find most MTB club riders feel it's their right to ride both lanes of jeep track as slow as they can while having a chat.... 8 rows deep with girlfriends and wife's pushing up the rear!

In joining a club, it does not mean you have to partake in their organised rides? I joined Tygerberg MTB club only so I can ride the trails, nothing more.

[Hellwarp]

I loath this topic as much as I loath having to police trails but hopefully some people will start realising the consequences of their hard-headedness. Rogue rider, freeloader, trespasser. Refer to them as you please but "loosely" they are people who knowingly make use of trails without adhering to the rules of said trail. They ride on their own or in groups and come across as ignorant or arrogant when confronted. In short they abuse trail use to the detriment of the sports image.

(They don't stay on marked trails, they don't pay and they don't display the required bikeboard, tag, sticker etc)

 

Whether they like it or not, the sport has grown to a point where trails have to be run in a controlled manner or landowners will not buy into allowing access. If riders don't adhere to simple rules as laid down by clubs, conservancies, forestry, cape nature etc then they will disallow access. Its not a pipe dream its happening as we speak.

 

Its not up to the landowners to ensure that rules are followed and riders act in a reponsible manner its up to the riders themselves.

 

Some MTB'ers feel cycling should be cheap, they want to ride everywhere but don't like the idea of having to pay. Its not cheap anymore, look what bikes cost. Compare it to golf, you join a club and thats where you play, the same course every week, if you want to try another course then you pay the green fees to play there. Thats how it works and without that arrangement there wouldn't be golf clubs.

 

"Roge riders" need to to start seeing the bigger picture or they will ultimately be the demise of the trails currently available and further trail development.

[slabs]

I loath this topic as much as I loath having to police trails but hopefully some people will start realising the consequences of their hard-headedness. Rogue rider, freeloader, trespasser. Refer to them as you please but "loosely" they are people who knowingly make use of trails without adhering to the rules of said trail. They ride on their own or in groups and come across as ignorant or arrogant when confronted. In short they abuse trail use to the detriment of the sports image.

(They don't stay on marked trails, they don't pay and they don't display the required bikeboard, tag, sticker etc)

 

Whether they like it or not, the sport has grown to a point where trails have to be run in a controlled manner or landowners will not buy into allowing access. If riders don't adhere to simple rules as laid down by clubs, conservancies, forestry, cape nature etc then they will disallow access. Its not a pipe dream its happening as we speak.

 

Its not up to the landowners to ensure that rules are followed and riders act in a reponsible manner its up to the riders themselves.

 

Some MTB'ers feel cycling should be cheap, they want to ride everywhere but don't like the idea of having to pay. Its not cheap anymore, look what bikes cost. Compare it to golf, you join a club and thats where you play, the same course every week, if you want to try another course then you pay the green fees to play there. Thats how it works and without that arrangement there wouldn't be golf clubs.

 

"Roge riders" need to to start seeing the bigger picture or they will ultimately be the demise of the trails currently available and further trail development.

 

That is the point! For all the guys (me included) that rode the farms before were in the minority a few years ago. Now we have hundreds of converts that want to enjoy the trails, but are not willing to become part of the solution?

 

If your house was on a shortcut to point B and everyone just decided to cross it instead of following the road around would you be happy???? Guess not - this is your private piece of land. So what is different when accessing these generous farmers' land?

 

Another angle as this sport seems to be the new golf - do you just pitch up at a golf course and play without paying?

 

My last point - cyclists are more and more coming across as an arrogant bunch of people. Look at some comments on this thread, debates about cars vs cyclists on the roads, etc. It is time that we become more courteous to other people and landowners and start to enjoy what we have available. I am sure the farmers will be a lot happier if they are respected and you engage them in a respectable manner.

[Cassie]

@ Hellwarp...could not have said it better!

 

"Rogue rider, freeloader, trespasser. Refer to them as you please but "loosely" they are people who knowingly make use of trails without adhering to the rules of said trail. They ride on their own or in groups and come across as ignorant or arrogant when confronted. In short they abuse trail use to the detriment of the sports image.

(They don't stay on marked trails, they don't pay and they don't display the required bikeboard, tag, sticker etc)"

 

Anybody care to dispute this definition?

[Cassie]

Just saw this on the newest Dirtopia circular - regarding some new trails they are opening in the Siimonsberg concervancy...{free B U M P!}

 

"Numberboards will be issued and you will be fined heavily and banned from our events and other trails if you trespass. This is all private land. A team of 10 men have been doing more than 50 days of trail building here for the last 2 months. Think about it."

[(Deon)]

Yeah Cassie, yesterday felt like a day out of the twilight zone! How can one issue reach a head in so many places at the same time?

 

The worry I have is that this news spreads around the country. In fact, TMNP already know about the Kliprug closure and mentioned it to me yesterday to probe the cause.. It bears very similar traits to the ongoing issue we have here of riders not givng a sh*t about what they do and lash out at the slightest steps to bring control. What gets me is that these guys are gloating about the amount of illegal trails and throwing such weak arguments in as justification. It's like they are threatening SANparks that if more trails aren't built, they will just continue reopening the illegal trail closures.. If I take all the recent discussions I have had with management I can say for certain that something is going to happen and it's not far off!!

 

Riders everywhere need to sit up and listen to what is clearly an issue around abuse!

 

(I see the bashing continues this morning on Tokai's facebook. I swear we have hit a new low, it's like a soap opera.. a really bad one!)

[PhilipV]

Yis this has become an unnecessary slugfest.

 

I reckon the club will have to be visible, and pretty vocal and serious about fighting this. THe farmers need to know how seriously this is taken and what measures the club is taking.

 

It will need to be something like this:

 

Club members man a marshaling point somewhere on the trail. Preferably where there is a bottleneck and riders need to dismount or slow down.

 

Stop all non complying riders, and then load them and their bicycles into a waiting vehicle and transport them and the bikes to the nearest tar road and off load them there. Or do it somewhere where it is close enough to a tar road where they can be watched riding to the tar road.

Get members who are not afraid of confrontation to do this. Maybe even get a representative of the farm to be part of this (maybe problematic.)

Do this over a couple of weeks at random times and on random places. Eventually word will spread and it will become less and less.

I'm joining end of November, and after that I will be willing to help with this.

 

I've heard from some of the club members who know the locals and the racing scene that a lot of the rogue riders they see are Stellenbosch riders.

[Super Sywurm]

Ok, I am a land owner with great single track potential on my land that you, the MTB club/community, want to access.

 

You are welcome but here is my non-negotiable starting point.

 

Riding on my land is a privilege. Not a right. It is your responsibility as a club/community to do whatever is required to protect that privilege by enforcing the agreed rules, not mine.

 

If this is acceptable, and you are able to ensure full compliance, we have a deal. If not, no deal.

 

Well said!!!

[flymango]

Ok, I am a land owner with great single track potential on my land that you, the MTB club/community, want to access.

 

You are welcome but here is my non-negotiable starting point.

 

Riding on my land is a privilege. Not a right. It is your responsibility as a club/community to do whatever is required to protect that privilege by enforcing the agreed rules, not mine.

 

If this is acceptable, and you are able to ensure full compliance, we have a deal. If not, no deal.

 

In exchange for acceptable commercial terms, would you be willing to re-consider converting that privilege to a right, obviously with onerous performance clauses for the MTB club attached to it? I'm trying to gauge whether most mountain bike trails in SA on private land aren't acting negligently by taking annual membership fees to do trail work and maintenance on land to which they have no rights but only landowner's goodwill. I do believe contractually a win-win outcome can be achieved with the correct approach and attitude of all parties concerned. Clearly we need and appreciate landowners like yourself in the first place.

[Velouria]

Try affiliate to IMBA...or their local equivalent - Amarider (like we did). Meurant will gladly give you the necessary information and advice. Best to start off on a sound footing...

It will be great to have more trails opening up in different areas. SA is just a treasure trove when it comes to MTB trail potential!!

 

I am an Amarider member (for the past 6 years), for no other reason but because I believe that what Meurant is doing for mountain biking in the Western Cape and the rest of the country is good for our sport. Since the Wannabees are affiliated to Amarider, does that mean I am affiliated to the Wannabees?

 

Essentially, my membership fees to Amarider helped the Wannabees set up their trails. How about paying back the favour and letting Amarider members ride your trails?

 

I guess you are also of the opinion that trails maintain themself + there are trail fairies that miraculously also produce new sections and routes...

AND that trail maintenance and building is below your stature?

 

To be fair, a lot of the trails that the Wannabees took over have deteriorated quite rapidly in the last couple of years. Trails we were riding 10 years ago that didn't need maintenance because people were taught not to drag their brakes, to ride proper lines etc

 

I'm not anti-Wannabee, I'm anti-exclusivity. Come up with a way to make it easy for people to comply, and I'm sure you'll have a better response from the local cycling community. Honesty boxes, day permits, club affiliations, etc.