First Tokai MTB AGM

[(Deon)]

Well said Vince.

Who is currently building the trails in Tokai ?

Do they have any idea what they are doing ? Doesn't look like it.

The new snake trails have no speed or flow and are already a mess after a recent re-build.

We would prefer that funds are raised and other trail builders paid to assist in Tokai (Jonkershoek crew perhaps)

The current setup is clearly not working, it has been years now !

Come on guys.

Well put Vince, and well put kellyslater.

 

Many of us are sharing kellyslater's feelings on what used to be some of the best trails in the WC. We keep hearing about the pending EMP etc. as being the reason but the fact is, within the current scope, with the current available resources, we could, and should, be seeing much better trail. Instead we have clumsy, awkward, poorly planned and designed crap, which is not much fun to ride. When we raise the issue, we get redirected with obtuse comments and excuses. Sometimes we get abuse... Time for change!

What have I got from "the source"? I am referring to a post from which you seem to have extracted something which was not even stated. I have no idea what you are thinking or what you are feeling. I get the sense that you are angry. I won't even hazard a guess to why. The cause would appear irrelevant in the context of an upcoming committee election in any event.

 

I haven't seen any details posted regarding these "dirty tactics" you allude to....

 

...I'm trying to temper some of the uneccesary emotion flying around this thread by indicating that there are people on it who's intentions noone could possibly question. But again - that's our list. Draw up your own if you want to be part of the solution going forward.

I draw to your attention the point at which the tone of this thread changed course. Your last statement of not knowing why some people are not happy, again seems to evade you. You would be best advised of either reading what you are saying or at the very least, altering your "not so clean tactic" of discrediting the work I have performed in the last 3 years.

 

You seem to base all your unhappiness on 1 trail that has been open for less than 3 months with an estimated total of 11 day's worth of work, many of them under adverse weather conditions with unexpected obstacles such as high water tables and roots at every dig of the spade. Please temper your emotion regarding thios free and fair election, unless this is the place for campaigning.

[Flowta]

There are some quite personal accusations here. (Lies, conspiracies, dirty tactics and others).

 

This is purely about getting organised, sorting out the trails in Tokai and hopefully getting more Trails in Tokai and the surrounding areas.

 

What other motivation could/should there be? An AGM has been a long time coming (was there a last one).

[DJR]

So in summary......

 

1. Deon builds "crap" trails but he is the only one building trails.

2. Somebody else now wants "better" trails ( I specifically didn't say want to built better trails..... as there is apparently "other" means to built as volunteer days).....

3. You want Deon to stay on and be you contact with SANPARKS as he has the know how and more importantly the relationship....something the "others" don't have.....

 

This looks like a loose loose situation to Deon..... He need to do all the hard work and sort SANParks out, and I promise you the first guy that will be blamed when no new trail can be built or maintenance is an issue would be Deon, because he is the SANParks contact...

 

The way in which this whole AGM came about is not on... yeah I read the nasty FB comments and can see whats going on.

 

I DON'T TRUST YOU GUYS BECAUSE YOU ARE SCREWING OVER A FELLOW MOUNTAINBIKER

 

This is a pretty good summary of the past few years, and I truly hope, not a prediction for the future.

[(Deon)]

 

Maybe we should just leave this discussion at this point. I have no wish to drag people's names through the mud, all should just know that I am satisfied that this AGM is in the best interest of Tokai. It has always been a requirement to have a public approved committee, whether publicly elected or just ratified.

 

To clarify from my side about some statements made on this thread:

 

I want to make it clear that I was given a task which included a very basic instruction from parks and agreed on by all present in a Working Committee meeting in 2011; to continue with low-level maintenance and realignment of unsustainable trails in the park until the rationalisation study and EMP could be completed. This documentation is a requirement and until a means is found to circumvent its necessity, will always be required.

 

The money donated by a private donor was intended to create a dedicated crew employed to work in Tokai. The funding of external contractors would be raised in due course when the rationaisation showed where investment into trails could be directed.

 

The logging of the Snake trails was not taken into account in this meeting and the low-level maintenance requirement was extended in 2013 to reopening the trail based on what was previously existing under condition that it would be done in consultation with the manager for the area. A study of the slope was carried out and the springs and wetlands the trail needed to run around were identified. Soil conditions and time of reopening this trail have also made the challenge that much greater. It has been said by others earlier in this thread that building in summer is not ideal, I guess I don't have to justify the quality of my building then, especially given that the soil type in Tokai is mainly sand.

 

Despite what is being said, the planning of the Snake trails included the group claiming not to have been consulted, forming the basis of this aggressive move for elections. I will be the first to admit that the passed 3 years of working with members of this group has been tumultuous at times but at each altercation, differences were put aside to see the completion of the Dowhnhill track - all built with volunteer labour.

[DJR]

OK, so let's look at what kind of people are needed on the committee to get the best possible deal for us as Tokai mountainbikers. This is my list, but feel free to add to it:

 

1. Ride Tokai passionately

2. Honest, open and approachable to all

3. Diplomatic enough to deal with extremely diverging stakeholders

4. Able to motivate for and raise funds

5. Have a wide knowledge of trailbuilding

6. Have a wide knowledge of conservation

7. Must be able to work within a team

8. Must have enough free time

9. Thick skinned

10. Tenacious with long term focus

 

Within the committee there is also a need for specialist knowledge:

1. Financial savvy - treasurer

2. Downhill track builder

3. Conservation

4. Engineering

5. Legal savvy

Edited February 2, 2014 by DJR

[Guest Omega Man]

OK, so let's look at what kind of people are needed on the committee to get the best possible deal for us as Tokai mountainbikers. This is my list, but feel free to add to it:

 

1. Ride Tokai passionately

2. Honest, open and approachable to all

3. Diplomatic enough to deal with extremely diverging stakeholders

4. Able to motivate for and raise funds

5. Have a wide knowledge of trailbuilding

6. Have a wide knowledge of conservation

7. Must be able to work within a team

8. Must have enough free time

9. Thick skinned

10. Tenacious with long term focus

 

Within the committee there is also a need for specialist knowledge:

1. Financial savvy - treasurer

2. Downhill track builder

3. Conservation

4. Engineering

5. Legal savvy

Are you volunteering for any of the positions? You are often the voice of reason when things get heated.

[Headshot]

So in summary......

 

1. Deon builds "crap" trails but he is the only one building trails.

2. Somebody else now wants "better" trails ( I specifically didn't say want to built better trails..... as there is apparently "other" means to built as volunteer days).....

3. You want Deon to stay on and be you contact with SANPARKS as he has the know how and more importantly the relationship....something the "others" don't have.....

 

This looks like a loose loose situation to Deon..... He need to do all the hard work and sort SANParks out, and I promise you the first guy that will be blamed when no new trail can be built or maintenance is an issue would be Deon, because he is the SANParks contact...

 

The way in which this whole AGM came about is not on... yeah I read the nasty FB comments and can see whats going on.

 

I DON'T TRUST YOU GUYS BECAUSE YOU ARE SCREWING OVER A FELLOW MOUNTAINBIKER

 

How about this - should mountain bikers (plural - many) be screwed over by a single mountain biker? That's not necessarily the case here of course, but if it is the case, which is worse, your example or mine?

 

How many years has there not been an AGM? Fact, there has never been an AGM. Questions: Have the current incumbents been managing the process properly from the money, to trail design to building to public participation? We don't know.The AGM and process after that will tell us.

 

All the naysayers point to dirty tactics, but no examples bar nasty FB comments are provided as evidence. There is however much evidence of paranoia and large chips on shoulders from the current incumbents

 

This is how things work in a democracy - we have a meeting and we vote - we don't waste our time bickering on the Hub throwing ludicrous conspiracy theories around.

 

Its all pretty simple really.

[Shebeen]

I've been riding tokai on/off for over fifteen years now. Haven't got involved in the trails but paid my fees and defended whatever moaning there has come against tokai over the years. I've always thought a ' club' would work better to handle the trails than sanparks.

 

I don't have a clue what the tiff is about here or the people and history behind it. I just hope that the biggest issue remains the desire for world class trails. Three weeks to an agm and the passion levels are high, let's hope it gets channeled constructively.

[Guest OldFlow]

I've been riding tokai on/off for over fifteen years now. Haven't got involved in the trails but paid my fees and defended whatever moaning there has come against tokai over the years. I've always thought a ' club' would work better to handle the trails than sanparks.

 

I don't have a clue what the tiff is about here or the people and history behind it. I just hope that the biggest issue remains the desire for world class trails. Three weeks to an agm and the passion levels are high, let's hope it gets channeled constructively.

 

Nice objective post Shebeen! Hope you're going to make it to the AGM. Please also feel free to consider the seats which need to be filled, and nominate and vote for anyone you feel may be able to add value to these roles. Just one correction to the portfolios, which has already been corrected by someone else, is that there obviously won't be two treasurer/secretaries. One of those should read Public Relations.

[Pappa Bear]

 

 

How about this - should mountain bikers (plural - many) be screwed over by a single mountain biker? That's not necessarily the case here of course, but if it is the case, which is worse, your example or mine?

 

How many years has there not been an AGM? Fact, there has never been an AGM. Questions: Have the current incumbents been managing the process properly from the money, to trail design to building to public participation? We don't know.The AGM and process after that will tell us.

 

All the naysayers point to dirty tactics, but no examples bar nasty FB comments are provided as evidence. There is however much evidence of paranoia and large chips on shoulders from the current incumbents

 

This is how things work in a democracy - we have a meeting and we vote - we don't waste our time bickering on the Hub throwing ludicrous conspiracy theories around.

 

Its all pretty simple really.

 

So one guy managed to organize trails and maintenance without a tokai MTB club! Hats of to that guy. And the new club will have BIG shoes to fill. Based on they way that this situation is handled made me very sceptic to trust the "new" team..... POS has a good reputation and did alot of work...... the new guys? they are just throwing their weight around and criticizing.... I dont like the tactics and if this is they way the "new" tokai club will conduct business, i sure as hell wont trust them with tokai's trails. I hope you guys are in for the long run and that we don't read, in a years time, how XC trails and DH trails need maintenance and how tokais MTB club was nothing but a flash in the pan! Good luck, because we are going to need it.......

[DJR]

Are you volunteering for any of the positions? You are often the voice of reason when things get heated.

 

Oh no, please, I will be he death of any committee. I'm only qualified to be a dictator.

(But I'll happily continue to be involved in the spadework)

[Guest OldFlow]

So in summary......

 

1. Deon builds "crap" trails but he is the only one building trails.

2. Somebody else now wants "better" trails ( I specifically didn't say want to built better trails..... as there is apparently "other" means to built as volunteer days).....

3. You want Deon to stay on and be you contact with SANPARKS as he has the know how and more importantly the relationship....something the "others" don't have.....

 

This looks like a loose loose situation to Deon..... He need to do all the hard work and sort SANParks out, and I promise you the first guy that will be blamed when no new trail can be built or maintenance is an issue would be Deon, because he is the SANParks contact...

 

The way in which this whole AGM came about is not on... yeah I read the nasty FB comments and can see whats going on.

 

I DON'T TRUST YOU GUYS BECAUSE YOU ARE SCREWING OVER A FELLOW MOUNTAINBIKER

1. Yes to Deon building "crap" trails. Part two a bit more complex. Deon is currently the one leading the volunteers. The current volunteers do not number many. In the past, these build days were far better supported and achieved far better results. Deon is also not the one who started the volunteer movement, but rather inherited it. Since then, the numbers have dwindled. Perhaps you ought to stop a minute and consider that Deon's conduct, as well as his under-performance in this role may be to blame for the mass exodus of previous loyal supporters of the volunteer body.
    
   
2. Not "somebody" but a rather large and growing body of Tokai regulars from every discipline. Not just the "5 or 6 disgruntled downhillers" that Myles refers to. If you are convinced that it is only a small handful of downhillers, then surely you guys should pay them no mind, as that number certainly couldn't influence the elections.
    
   
3. Would you prefer us not to nominate Deon?
   

As for "the way in which this whole AGM came about is not on", we have been accused of "dirty tactics" and "lies and disinformation". Right near the beginning of this thread, Deon tried to spin this as being "business as usual" and that this AGM/Public Meeting was always on the cards but just hadn't been announced yet. We have already stated that this is not the case. This AGM has come about through our direct efforts to get broader representation, a more publicly transparent situation, accountability and better levels of communication in place. Deon's statements are both lies and disinformation.Your statement clearly indicates that you are fully aware of this.

 

It's your prerogative not to trust us. Not sure what the implication of your statement is, as we have not asked you to vote for any of us, but have instead actively encouraged everyone to nominate whoever they feel fit.

Edited February 2, 2014 by OldFlow

[DJR]

How about this - should mountain bikers (plural - many) be screwed over by a single mountain biker? That's not necessarily the case here of course, but if it is the case, which is worse, your example or mine? It is worse when a single person gets bullied by a group, much worse.

 

How many years has there not been an AGM? Fact, there has never been an AGM. Questions: Have the current incumbents been managing the process properly from the money, to trail design to building to public participation? We don't know.The AGM and process after that will tell us. In 2012 the Forum was formed through a public meeting. In 2013 a follow up public meeting was held. Both times at Crysalis and open to anybody and well publicised and attended. Frank and open discussions took place. (Correct me on the details if needed)

All the naysayers point to dirty tactics, but no examples bar nasty FB comments are provided as evidence. There is however much evidence of paranoia and large chips on shoulders from the current incumbents Undermining, backstabbing, calling someones' integrity into question mainly because you don't see eye to eye. Actually, it is worse than "dirty tricks". (See your own above references about money, paranoia, chips on shoulders as an example of what I'm talking about)

 

This is how things work in a democracy - we have a meeting and we vote - we don't waste our time bickering on the Hub throwing ludicrous conspiracy theories around.

 

Its all pretty simple really. Yes it is simple, just not the same simple for all of us, lets bicker some more

[Vince]

My name is Vince it says so above all my posts, I don't know who Capricorn is, but I do know that his comments show a level of ignorance probably gained from being obsessed with these forums.

 

"The way in which this whole AGM came about is not on... yeah I read the nasty FB comments and can see whats going on."

"I DON'T TRUST YOU GUYS BECAUSE YOU ARE SCREWING OVER A FELLOW MOUNTAINBIKER"

 

What do these statements mean exactly?

 

And for the record I never said I wanted Deon on the committee, if he's elected then so be it, this has nothing to do with individuals its got to do with getting better trails, if you think you can achieve this then put your hand up and take on that responsibility.

[(Deon)]

 

1. Yes to Deon building "crap" trails. Part two a bit more complex. Deon is currently the one leading the volunteers. The current volunteers do not number many. In the past, these build days were far better supported and achieved far better results. Deon is also not the one who started the volunteer movement, but rather inherited it. Since then, the numbers have dwindled. Perhaps you ought to stop a minute and consider that Deon's conduct, as well as his under-performance in this role may be to blame for the mass exodus of previous loyal supporters of the volunteer body.
    
   
2. Not "somebody" but a rather large and growing body of Tokai regulars from every discipline. Not just the "5 or 6 disgruntled downhillers" that Myles refers to. If you are convinced that it is only a small handful of downhillers, then surely you guys should pay them no mind, as that number certainly couldn't influence the elections.
    
   
3. Would you prefer us not to nominate Deon?
   

As for "the way in which this whole AGM came about is not on", we have been accused of "dirty tactics" and "lies and disinformation". Right near the beginning of this thread, Deon tried to spin this as being "business as usual" and that this AGM/Public Meeting was always on the cards but just hadn't been announced yet. We have already stated that this is not the case. This AGM has come about through our direct efforts to get broader representation, a more publicly transparent situation, accountability and better levels of communication in place. Deon's statements are both lies and disinformation.Your statement clearly indicates that you are fully aware of this.

 

It's your prerogative not to trust us. Not sure what the implication of your statement is, as we have not asked you to vote for any of us, but have instead actively encouraged everyone to nominate whoever they feel fit.

[Guest OldFlow]

I draw to your attention the point at which the tone of this thread changed course. Your last statement of not knowing why some people are not happy, again seems to evade you. You would be best advised of either reading what you are saying or at the very least, altering your "not so clean tactic" of discrediting the work I have performed in the last 3 years.

 

You seem to base all your unhappiness on 1 trail that has been open for less than 3 months with an estimated total of 11 day's worth of work, many of them under adverse weather conditions with unexpected obstacles such as high water tables and roots at every dig of the spade. Please temper your emotion regarding thios free and fair election, unless this is the place for campaigning.

 

Expressing my opinion is a dirty tactic? If me (or anyone else) expressing their opinion is to be considered dirty tactics, and that is what is upsetting you and "some people", then you're only giving more evidence of why this democratic process is long overdue.

 

I have not discredited all the work you have "performed in the last 3 years". I acknowledged that you have played a role in terms of improving relationships with SANParks. If you cannot concede that your trail building skills are inadequate to produce the high standard of trail such as what we see a proliferation of elsewhere, then that too is a clear indication that a new approach is urgently needed.

 

You make assumptions as to what I base my unhappiness on. You assume incorrectly.

 

No, this not a "campaigning forum". At the risk of repeating myself, not one of us has even intimated that we would like anyone here to nominate us.