First Tokai MTB AGM

[jimmy hardtail]

It would appear that the smallest section of the mtb group is also the most passionate about the trails. I place myself firmly in that group. And I am fully behind whoever is going to do the best job of making tokai world class.So bring your proposals to the agm and lets decide like grown ups, not have schoolyard arguments that always erupt on anonymous forums

[jimmy hardtail]

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Edited February 2, 2014 by jimmy hardtail

[two hands]

C'mon, Deon. Tokai needs you.

You are supported far more widely than the Hub would have you believe.

Guys, there's no point in having this out on a forum like the Hub. As I think we all know there are a lot of people with skills and experience to help us move forward with SANParks and TMNP who don't hang out here on a Sunday night (or any day or night for that matter!).

The Hub is not a proxy for sentiment surrounding Tokai, or anything relating to cycling. It is has a large number of users from the MTB community, for sure. But the Hub is fundamentally undemocratic, and (at least in this instance) creates divisions rather than collective purpose. Both 'sides' raise interesting points that can be explained at a public meeting, if the holders of those opinions choose to do so...

BUT (and here's the kicker) there are waaaay more than two sides to this. I look forward to people raising more support (and criticism) than what is contained in this thread. It is not binary. There are plenty of voices to be heard here. The Hub makes it appear like there are only two viewpoints. It's plainly myopic to view it like that.

[marko35s]

It would appear that the smallest section of the mtb group is also the most passionate about the trails. I place myself firmly in that group. And I am fully behind whoever is going to do the best job of making tokai world class.So bring your proposals to the agm and lets decide like grown ups, not have schoolyard arguments that always erupt on anonymous forums

I think you are wrong assuming one group is more passionate about the trails than the other, it looks like everybody is ready to claw each others eyes out in the name of the trails.

A big part of this mess appears, to me at least, to have been stoked by insults very early in the thread aimed chiefly at Deon but also at the current volunteers. Calling the work up there "crap" was hardly designed to engender a healthy debate and foster trust.

Its like watching a car crash, only much less fun...

It is possiible for adults to point out things that can be improved without insulting people, unfortunately it is probably way too late for that now as it appears that the tension is only going up and people are just going to dig their heels in.

Its all rather sad.

Edit - Apparently I am a naysayer (yay me!) so this should all be taken with a pinch of salt...

 

Edited February 2, 2014 by marko35s

[jimmy hardtail]

I mean that the majority of people riding tokai are not involved in the actual construction and or maintenance of trails, be it at volunteer build days or whatever. And will not be at the agm either. it doesnt mean that they dont care. Just that they dont care as much as the people who take the time to get involved. This is not a hobby or recreational activity for me, it is one of the main passions in my life,second only to my wife and daughter.

[jimmy hardtail]

And I have been to numerous build days and have been supporting Deon where I felt that he was right, but also pointing out things that I thought were not working and helping when I could to make them better.

[marko35s]

And I have been to numerous build days and have been supporting Deon where I felt that he was right, but also pointing out things that I thought were not working and helping when I could to make them better.

For clarity - my post wasnt aimed at you.

[(Deon)]

C'mon, Deon. Tokai needs you.

You are supported far more widely than the Hub would have you believe.

Guys, there's no point in having this out on a forum like the Hub. As I think we all know there are a lot of people with skills and experience to help us move forward with SANParks and TMNP who don't hang out here on a Sunday night (or any day or night for that matter!).

The Hub is not a proxy for sentiment surrounding Tokai, or anything relating to cycling. It is has a large number of users from the MTB community, for sure. But the Hub is fundamentally undemocratic, and (at least in this instance) creates divisions rather than collective purpose. Both 'sides' raise interesting points that can be explained at a public meeting, if the holders of those opinions choose to do so...

BUT (and here's the kicker) there are waaaay more than two sides to this. I look forward to people raising more support (and criticism) than what is contained in this thread. It is not binary. There are plenty of voices to be heard here. The Hub makes it appear like there are only two viewpoints. It's plainly myopic to view it like that.

Thanks two hands, but I have had some time to think about this. The fact is the hub is not to blame, much of the sentiments you are seeing here are of those who are not hub regulars.

 

The AGM MUST NOT be a place where this is discussed, the hub was also not meant to be the place. I have tried to look passed the childish comments found on page 1 and continue unabated. Despite providing very clear rationale to the the comments/accusations, the nonsense has continued and is indicative of the thinking of this group (Oldflow has stated that he shares their opinion and therefore is a spokeperson on their behalf). I will no longer be bullied or held to account for the timeframe in the requirements of progressing the facility of mountain biking.

 

Just be sure that what these guys say is true.. the paper trail I have differs vastly!

Edited February 2, 2014 by Pain or shine

[(Deon)]

For clarity - my post wasnt aimed at you.

..and I did not understand it that way either. Jimmy knows both parties and i would not ever ask anyone to choose sides.

[DJR]

It would appear that the smallest section of the mtb group is also the most passionate about the trails. I place myself firmly in that group. And I am fully behind whoever is going to do the best job of making tokai world class.So bring your proposals to the agm and lets decide like grown ups, not have schoolyard arguments that always erupt on anonymous forums

 

Agreed Jimmy.

 

The passionate people are the ones we want. In my honest opinion those were the people that showed up to work and fight for the Tokai trails through thick and thin, when it looked like we were not going to be allowed to build anything. Unfortunately the backstabbing and personal insults seem to finally have knocked the passion out of one of the most passionate and tenacious ones. That is terrible. Let's trust his passion will return with time, I just hope the backstabbers will soon realize that this was not a fight of us against them, but rather the dog with the sharpest teeth savaging himself.

['Dale]

This thread is rof.

Lots of power struggles and so on.

 

Pain or Shine, you've been carrying a lot of heat on behalf of many in your role.

All the best forward and may you have all the support you need (should you continue) to create greater cooperation amongst everybody.

 

C'mon, guys, I think you all want the same thing, nê.

Good luck!

 

[Guest OldFlow]

Agreed Jimmy.

 

The passionate people are the ones we want. In my honest opinion those were the people that showed up to work and fight for the Tokai trails through thick and thin, when it looked like we were not going to be allowed to build anything. Unfortunately the backstabbing and personal insults seem to finally have knocked the passion out of one of the most passionate and tenacious ones. That is terrible. Let's trust his passion will return with time, I just hope the backstabbers will soon realize that this was not a fight of us against them, but rather the dog with the sharpest teeth savaging himself.

Thanks two hands, but I have had some time to think about this. The fact is the hub is not to blame, much of the sentiments you are seeing here are of those who are not hub regulars.

 

The AGM MUST NOT be a place where this is discussed, the hub was also not meant to be the place. I have tried to look passed the childish comments found on page 1 and continue unabated. Despite providing very clear rationale to the the comments/accusations, the nonsense has continued and is indicative of the thinking of this group (Oldflow has stated that he shares their opinion and therefore is a spokeperson on their behalf). I will no longer be bullied or held to account for the timeframe in the requirements of progressing the facility of mountain biking.

 

Just be sure that what these guys say is true.. the paper trail I have differs vastly!

 

So to reiterate/summarise what I and/or others have said throughout this thread and my own opinion in general on the matter:

 

We (many regular Tokai riders from many disciplines, sexes, ages, wheel sizes etc.) have been dissatisfied with how things have; or have not; been going at Tokai for quite some time now. Along the way Deon made an analogy about sport; and coaches being blamed for a poor result in one game. From my perspective, the issue is more that we have a far bigger management problem here. We have a single person attempting to be coach, manager, public relations officer, accountant, fund raiser and more. Perhaps admirable on the face of it, but this is not a situation conducive to achieving more rapid and positive results. Unfortunately it is not only "one game" that has produced less than satisfactory results, it has been a good couple of seasons.

 

The upcoming elections are free and open and anyone who loves riding at Tokai, and wishes to be part of the solution, should be excited. No-one is asking for anyone to be ousted and no-one has any hidden agendas and anyone can nominate anyone they want. What we do hope for is a refreshed and strengthened committee of passionate, able bodied people, consisting of riders and representing a better cross-section of Tokai riders.

 

If Deon is not prepared to embrace this opportunity to work with others, and be part of the future efforts, then that is sad and not what we want, but the process will continue. Tokai and our sport are far bigger than one person.

Edited February 3, 2014 by OldFlow

[Lone_Ranger]

Just a quick question. How widely has this AGM been advertised? Might be worthwhile putting a flyer up at the parking area at the Arboretum for those riders who aren't part of the FB group and not on The Hub. Could help to get me bums on seats at the AGM.

 

Further, I think this discussion needs to be toned down a bit. Less "playing the man" and more focussing on the best way to get those world class trails in Tokai which we all want.

[Flowta]

Just a quick question. How widely has this AGM been advertised? Might be worthwhile putting a flyer up at the parking area at the Arboretum for those riders who aren't part of the FB group and not on The Hub. Could help to get me bums on seats at the AGM.

 

Further, I think this discussion needs to be toned down a bit. Less "playing the man" and more focussing on the best way to get those world class trails in Tokai which we all want.

 

I'll go put something up today

[Guest OldFlow]

I'll go put something up today

 

I think getting the bike shops to display a big version would also be good.

[two hands]

I think getting the bike shops to display a big version would also be good.

 

Not 'good'. Essential. Probbaly also legally required.

Wow, guys. You mean the AGM has only been advertised on the Hub? *SMH

As heated as the thread has got this is not the 'public' forum to constitute sufficient notice for all interested parties.

If you're calling for an AGM the onus falls on you to get as many interested parties there as possible. If I hadn't stumbled on this thread I'd have been none the wiser...