(Deon) Posted February 3, 2014 Share DJR, a lot of emphasis has been placed on the importance of the EMP. The nature of the talk surrounding it has generally made it sound like the future Tokai Trail Bible, but this is not the case. The EMP is actually a much broader overview of any trails (existing and future) within the entire Peninsula Mountain Chain. Tokai is but a small part of that big picture. The EMP addresses many things but does not go down to the level of dictating how or even where trails may or may not be actually built etc. It is more concerned that all important factors are taken into consideration, with emphasis placed on respecting land owners and negotiating and getting clear permissions. Those permissions would hinge on many factors depending on the land in question. The EMP envisages trails on (and passing through) private, council and state/public land. Each type would have its own issues and sensitivities to consider. What is more important is to speed up the process whereby SANParks will decide where, when and if MTB trails will be allowed in any area of Tokai. A lower level "Trail Management Agreement" specific to Tokai will need to be drawn up to address that level of detail.You know that this is not true. PLeas listen to what is being said and if there is something you do not understand, please ask. This is how the misinformation is spread, someone has now read that and thinks this could be possible. Did you not see Meurants head shaking when Vince suggested this.. How could TMNP separate Tokai from an EMP? It's their land. I hope everyone understand that we have not started talking about the details of trails yet.. there is too much emphasis on trails and not enough emphasis on the documents that determine the activity. Edited February 3, 2014 by Pain or shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 3, 2014 Share Just an aside. The company I work for has offered (not really. I asked) to provide accounting services for free for TokaiMTB. There is a condition and that is that TokaiMTB register as a non profit organization. The offer of accounting services is not conditional on any person or persons being included or excluded from the TokaiMTB committee. So there is no motive here. It's being offered with an open hand. TokaiMTB will need an Auditor. I'm sure we can rustle up a Mountain Biker who's day job is being an Auditor. Why did you leave/reject the offer of joining the committee? Serious question. Edited February 3, 2014 by Pain or shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 3, 2014 Share I have put something together that deals with the process of registering an NPO, getting constituted, low level maintenance agreements agreed by parks and the then Working Committee in 2011. Rationalisation, EMP and conservation mandates. Would you like it now or wait for a discussion in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldFlow Posted February 3, 2014 Share You know that this is not true. PLeas listen to what is being said and if there is something you do not understand, please ask. This is how the misinformation is spread, someone has now read that and thinks this could be possible. Did you not see Meurants head shaking when Vince suggested this.. How could TMNP separate Tokai from an EMP? It's their land. I hope everyone understand that we have not started talking about the details of trails yet.. there is too much emphasis on trails and not enough emphasis on the documents that determine the activity. Really no desire to fling more dung here... Take it off-list if you really want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJR Posted February 3, 2014 Share Really no desire to fling more dung here... Take it off-list if you really want... Is that an admission to dung flinging I detect? Pappa Bear and Capricorn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 3, 2014 Share Really no desire to fling more dung here... Take it off-list if you really want...Do you believe what you have suggested is possible, to divide Tokai from a TMNP EMP with a mini EMP of it's own? Do I have this wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldFlow Posted February 3, 2014 Share Is that an admission to dung flinging I detect? If it'll keep the peace, ok yes. Really just tired of negativity here. And walking backwards. The situation really is positive. Starting to see plenty common ground and prefer to keep pushing forwards ;-) DJR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldFlow Posted February 3, 2014 Share Do you believe what you have suggested is possible, to divide Tokai from a TMNP EMP with a mini EMP of it's own? Do I have this wrong? That's not what I have suggested. The EMP is a very different document with a different purpose to a Trail Management Agreement. EMP is not going to dictate where and how trails are built. It will dictate that the particular conditions specific to each landowner/s concerned are respected and adhered to. Perhaps if we had a strong, more specific Trail Management Agreement drawn up, showing SANParks we actually want to build trails in a responsible manner, we may be able to get a bit more leeway than we have seen to date. I suspect that many of the riders would also like to be able to refer to something more tangible, giving them a better sense of what the deal is. This really is a different discussion though and either belongs off-list or at least on a different thread.... The gist of this thread is, and should remain, that we have elections coming up and that anybody who cares about Tokai has an opportunity to play a role in shaping the future. Edited February 3, 2014 by OldFlow Trillian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted February 3, 2014 Share Perhaps a pre-meeting is in order - in a public place so we all play nice. Good idea. I'll be there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted February 3, 2014 Share That's not what I have suggested. The EMP is a very different document with a different purpose to a Trail Management Agreement. EMP is not going to dictate where and how trails are built. It will dictate that the particular conditions specific to each landowner/s concerned are respected and adhered to. Perhaps if we had a strong, more specific Trail Management Agreement drawn up, showing SANParks we actually want to build trails in a responsible manner, we may be able to get a bit more leeway than we have seen to date. I suspect that many of the riders would also like to be able to refer to something more tangible, giving them a better sense of what the deal is. This really is a different discussion though and either belongs off-list or at least on a different thread.... The gist of this thread is, and should remain, that we have elections coming up and that anybody who cares about Tokai has an opportunity to play a role in shaping the future. I think you finally getting to the core of the argument, albeit in a vague and nebulous way. This core argument is very driver for change, or should be, but then say it mustn't be discussed. What?I dont understand how anyone can vote for a change if they dont understand the core of the problem and who is proposing what to address the real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldFlow Posted February 3, 2014 Share I think you finally getting to the core of the argument, albeit in a vague and nebulous way. This core argument is very driver for change, or should be, but then say it mustn't be discussed. What?I dont understand how anyone can vote for a change if they dont understand the core of the problem and who is proposing what to address the real problems. This thread really was intended to notify as many people as possible of the AGM and encourage them to take part. Maybe we should get another thread going to discuss these types of things. Perhaps it could be the seed for a list of topics that need discussion/clarity at the meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted February 3, 2014 Share I dont understand how anyone can vote for a change if they dont understand the core of the problem and who is proposing what to address the real problems. Guys at the core of this need to understand that what you said is exactly how it feels to the rest of us. And that needs addressing first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLuvsMtb Posted February 3, 2014 Share Jossis! and here I thought TBMTBC had issues. Good luck guys. My money is on Sanparks booting all of us out for good. Da Vinci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJR Posted February 3, 2014 Share Open and frank discussion is good and despite very harsh words and serious disagreements, this has not deteriorated into the meltdown that I have seen on The Hub before. I think this is because all involved want what is best for the place they love riding, Tokai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted February 3, 2014 Share Why did you leave/reject the offer of joining the committee? Serious question.Honestly dude I'd rather keep that discussion between you and I. It would be too easy for people on here to misinterpret my intent and we all get dragged down a Deon vs Duane fight. I think we are both good guys who both love Tokai and would love to see it be what it rightfully deserves to be. I've allowed myself to get carried away with my emotions before and said some things that I've regretted and I'd like to keep away from that. As far as the offer of accounting services goes that offer stands and as I've stated it's only condition is that TokaiMTB register as a non profit. I think freebie work for NPO's is a tax deductible expense for my company. I'm also pretty sure we can find a Mountain Biker/Auditor to audit the financials for us. Notice I said Mountain Biker/Auditor not Auditor/Mountain Biker BTW as far as I know it is a SARS requirement for all NPO's have audited financials. Edited February 3, 2014 by Omega Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 3, 2014 Share That's not what I have suggested. The EMP is a very different document with a different purpose to a Trail Management Agreement. EMP is not going to dictate where and how trails are built. It will dictate that the particular conditions specific to each landowner/s concerned are respected and adhered to. Perhaps if we had a strong, more specific Trail Management Agreement drawn up, showing SANParks we actually want to build trails in a responsible manner, we may be able to get a bit more leeway than we have seen to date. I suspect that many of the riders would also like to be able to refer to something more tangible, giving them a better sense of what the deal is. This really is a different discussion though and either belongs off-list or at least on a different thread.... The gist of this thread is, and should remain, that we have elections coming up and that anybody who cares about Tokai has an opportunity to play a role in shaping the future. What you're talking about is the trail rationalisation. That goes hand in hand with the EMP and is currently being formulated by an external body. We cannot rush that process, as the trail conditions need to be observed over real time to determine the actual impact that riding / running / horse riding has on the Trails themselves together with the surrounding weather patterns, plant cover, soil type and so on (yes it doesn't just include us mtbers) To now come and say that there needs to be an additional trail management agreement separate to the emp is to completely misunderstand SAN PARKS requirements for trail of any kind within tokai. If this is what you are basing part of your anger on, or is what you are being told is possible, your anger is sorely misplaced. Edited February 3, 2014 by cpt armpies mayhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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