First Tokai MTB AGM

[Pappa Bear]

Nah ... to PC

 

Being PC gets cooperation - being a bull gets you broken China. The one requires respect, restraint and tolerance the other one an ego.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Pappa Bear

[(Deon)]

Nah ... to PC

 

Not if you weren't looking for a fight or had other unscrupulous agendas in mind..

[Guest OldFlow]

For somebody that doesn't know him personally the following remarks taken from the first few pages here could just be taken as a little insulting and malicious -

 

we could, and should, be seeing much better trail. Instead we have clumsy, awkward, poorly planned and designed crap

we want premium trails back in Tokai, not the amateurish stuff we have seen haphazardly spreading across the mountain

Hopefully the members elected to the new Tokai MTB committee will be experienced,knowledgeable riders and be respected in the local MTB community" I feel strongly that that's not what we have presently

 

It was hardly designed to win friends now was it?

 

Hi Marko,

 

I'm not interested in getting into a slinging match, so I'll just state my case as diplomatically as I can then.

 

For the record, I didn't join this thread to win friends. Got plenty of those already . My intention has never been to win people over to my way of thinking. We all have our own opinions. Mine are strong, but then I am very passionate about MTB'ing. I am not alone in those opinions btw. As stated previously there are many people who are to a lesser or greater degree dissatisfied with the trails. My comments are tame compared to what I often hear out on the trails. Standing by the trailside with a spade in your hands eliciting comments is unlikely to deliver many negative ones, or any criticism from passing riders. Perhaps a better gauge of rider opinion would be ongoing car-park or online surveys to establish a broader, more meaningful perspective. As far as I know, no such surveys have been carried out at Tokai in the past two years

 

What I did want was to get as many people aware of the upcoming AGM and encourage them to attend and play a role in the future of Tokai. Apart from publicly stating that I would nominate Deon for one of the seats, I haven't ever mentioned who my other nominees would be, so no-one could accuse me of leading any campaign here. I've also said that Deon might even be pleasantly surprised with some on my list. For the record, I don't want to be on the committee, in case that might be one of Deon's concerns. I prefer riding to online forums! I'm more than happy though to give what time and other resources or input I may be able to provide where needed.

 

I'm not sure exactly which part of my comments upset you but I can't apologize for them. They are my opinions and I have every right to express them. The most vulgar word I used was "crap". If the term "amateur" offends you, then stop to consider that the volunteer group, by its' very nature is indeed a bunch of amateurs in that it is an unpaid contribution from a body of people with limited experience and knowledge. This is not intended to be derogatory. The problem is that I would like to see trails as built by professionals. Not sure how much you get around, but there are some mind-blowingly good trails sprouting up all over the WC. If Tokai still left me feeling the same way I do after riding other trails, I wouldn't even be here (it used to). I firmly believe that given the same mountainside , same constraints and bureaucracy, same limitations in terms of mechanized equipment etc. there are builders out there who would have produced a much better experience (for all type and level of rider). I also believe that doing it that way would, in fact, be the most cost effective way of doing it.

[(Deon)]

Hi Marko,

 

I'm not interested in getting into a slinging match, so I'll just state my case as diplomatically as I can then.

 

WTF?

[Hairy]

Do you understand Hairy that the trail is not up to standard after 11 days paid labour and 4 volunteer days in the summer. I was being bashed in the first week of the trail being opened. I.e. lifting branches because "it had no flow" 1 week!

 

Torrential downpours have broken a lot that we have built, washed out massive sections of trail, we've lost the ±100m3 clay destined for the sand corners and sandy sections, all carted off Cecelia forest Jeeptrack for the pine clearing activities, only to have him say that what is standing there now while we wait for rationalisation to be completed, is CRAP!

 

No bud. There is something wrong with that sentiment. He has not once come to me to discuss. I had to find out in a high level meeting that he is now the "volunteer expert" who came to give his version of what happens at volunteer days and how we should be spending what small budget we have with professionals. This makes absolutely no business sense?! If we have no commitment that there will be a trail where we pump all our money, who is going to invest in Tokai in the future when/if we are instructed to close the track and rehab the area Exapmple: there is too much water.

 

Instead I am spending 1/3 of what a professional will cost to maintain the trails across the mountain, keeping the wheels turning and restoring the severe damage Tokai has sustained over years.. because there has not been a dedicated maintenance crew or large budgets. I have since with everyone's blessing employed 5 guys who now are all sitting at home without any money to support their families, why? Because of a childish moratorium against what a few people think is crap! Tokai is suffering because of difference in opinion, not in fact!

 

Dude, I am angry!! But I have kept my decorum throughout.. now I'm being told that he has an opinion but I should not. Fair?

 

I want to meet these guys half way, we'll talk about this at the meeting but so all here know... I had to get commitment from Parks that we could rebuild the Snake trail sustainably, low-key and without major investment to get riders off the DH as soon as possible, and also because it is 50% of our trails. I have achieved that.

 

If we need to pay Bennett now to install few features that I, or the volunteers could do (and we can with the right conditions) then so be it. Bennett knows he is the guy for Tokai.. he is patiently waiting for the process to conclude but he is puzzled by why we need to invest high level budget for something insecure. I will get the money to make everyone happy but I cannot support the call for massive spending.. that makes no sense!

 

Ed: typo

No need to ask me what I understand or don't.

 

I recall your pics of spades vanishing in topsoil after the huge rains we had this winter.

 

Old Flow has an opinion and should be able to raise it, just like everyone else including yourself.

 

Why has worked stopped with the paid labour? Was there a huge outcry to stop works? I certainly do not recall this.

 

Following on from past pages and their ending, prior to my request to stop sniping, it was becoming clear that the two various groups would be getting together to discuss matters face to face over a few beers.... let this happen as it is clear all want the something.

 

POS, should you feel that your hard work is discredited then you have every right to defend your works with facts and evidence

[Hairy]

Being PC gets cooperation - being a bull gets you broken China. The one requires respect, restraint and tolerance the other one an ego.

Not if you weren't looking for a fight or had other unscrupulous agendas in mind..

Just trying to diffuse and lighten up a rather gloomy atmosphere.

[Pappa Bear]

Hi Marko,

 

I'm not interested in getting into a slinging match, so I'll just state my case as diplomatically as I can then.

 

For the record, I didn't join this thread to win friends. Got plenty of those already . My intention has never been to win people over to my way of thinking. We all have our own opinions. Mine are strong, but then I am very passionate about MTB'ing. I am not alone in those opinions btw. As stated previously there are many people who are to a lesser or greater degree dissatisfied with the trails. My comments are tame compared to what I often hear out on the trails. Standing by the trailside with a spade in your hands eliciting comments is unlikely to deliver many negative ones, or any criticism from passing riders. Perhaps a better gauge of rider opinion would be ongoing car-park or online surveys to establish a broader, more meaningful perspective. As far as I know, no such surveys have been carried out at Tokai in the past two years

 

What I did want was to get as many people aware of the upcoming AGM and encourage them to attend and play a role in the future of Tokai. Apart from publicly stating that I would nominate Deon for one of the seats, I haven't ever mentioned who my other nominees would be, so no-one could accuse me of leading any campaign here. I've also said that Deon might even be pleasantly surprised with some on my list. For the record, I don't want to be on the committee, in case that might be one of Deon's concerns. I prefer riding to online forums! I'm more than happy though to give what time and other resources or input I may be able to provide where needed.

 

I'm not sure exactly which part of my comments upset you but I can't apologize for them. They are my opinions and I have every right to express them. The most vulgar word I used was "crap". If the term "amateur" offends you, then stop to consider that the volunteer group, by its' very nature is indeed a bunch of amateurs in that it is an unpaid contribution from a body of people with limited experience and knowledge. This is not intended to be derogatory. The problem is that I would like to see trails as built by professionals. Not sure how much you get around, but there are some mind-blowingly good trails sprouting up all over the WC. If Tokai still left me feeling the same way I do after riding other trails, I wouldn't even be here (it used to). I firmly believe that given the same mountainside , same constraints and bureaucracy, same limitations in terms of mechanized equipment etc. there are builders out there who would have produced a much better experience (for all type and level of rider). I also believe that doing it that way would, in fact, be the most cost effective way of doing it.

 

.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

No need to ask me what I understand or don't.

 

I recall your pics of spades vanishing in topsoil after the huge rains we had this winter.

 

Old Flow has an opinion and should be able to raise it, just like everyone else including yourself.

 

Why has worked stopped with the paid labour? Was there a huge outcry to stop works? I certainly do not recall this.

 

Following on from past pages and their ending, prior to my request to stop sniping, it was becoming clear that the two various groups would be getting together to discuss matters face to face over a few beers.... let this happen as it is clear all want the something.

 

POS, should you feel that your hard work is discredited then you have every right to defend your works with facts and evidence

 

Because of a "moratorium" requested by the "aggrieved party"

 

We were due to make a divert on vasbyt this past weekend, but were prevented by doing so as a result of this moratorium on ALL trail work.

[Pappa Bear]

Just trying to diffuse and lighten up a rather gloomy atmosphere.

 

Then you know the magic words........

[Guest OldFlow]

Not if you weren't looking for a fight or had other unscrupulous agendas in mind..

 

I really wish someone would shed some light on this hidden/unscrupulous agenda thing. It keeps getting referred to but never with any specifics.

[Hairy]

Then you know the magic words........

Please?

[Pappa Bear]

Please?

 

Want to phone a friend or go 50/50?

[Trillian]

Hairy

As far as I'm aware there is a temporary break in the maintenance until the AGM. Agreed to by Meurant, who I think at the moment has the highest authority in this in his capacity at AMA. It's a few weeks only, if the paid labour is having a hard time in the interim I am sure we can all pitch in to help out either with cash or groceries.

Where can I send them?

[Hairy]

Want to phone a friend or go 50/50?

nooit hey, double or nothing

[Hairy]

I just want to add that I probably ride TK twice a year as I just feel for R45 (and not including the drive to TK) my money and time is far better spent on riding the Tygerberg trails or trekking to Jonkers.

 

R45 to ride the trails ..... and then they give very little back to the cycling community and give the trail builders such a hard time to get anything done .... come on SANPARKs.

[(Deon)]

Thanks Rika. I'm sure this will be appreciated.