YatesK Posted February 10, 2014 Author Posted February 10, 2014 I am a technical oke. I have broken chains via broken hangers and weak links and s****y workmanship on chain assemblies.So here is how I think.... Most of the strain on any bike chain is at the top. So naturally the chain will break there first. So if the chain broke there, there would not have been a "link" - for the lack of a better word- between the chain ring and rear cogs that would be able to pull the jockey way past the hanger and stuffing the frame in the process.BUT....Throw a jockey with a stick and it shuts down, you give it some power to turn. NOW there is a link between the chain ring and rear cogs, the jockey will overtake the hanger, breaking it and damaging the frame. Once all this has gone to s**t, the chain will break because it will not be able to turn the wheel. this all can happen in two strokes while standing... Just a thoughtThanks - the chain did not break completely - If I can explain it, one of the rivets (if that is what you call them) popped on one side (probably not "squashed" enough to keep the link closed) causing the one side of the link to open outwards, this is what hooked on the cage of the derailleur bending it backwards. My daughter was riding up a short steep road so there would have been quite a bit of strain on the chain at the time (she is 24, so not a child)
divernick Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 My one mate has broken about 5 chains in the 2 years he's been riding. reason: he shifts under power. The outer link plate get's pulled off the pin and SNAP. I believe that most chain breakages happen this way. Since he has started riding single speed, no more chain issues. Moral of the story, most chain issues are rider-caused. Picture an opened-up link plate, passing over the chainring and getting wedged in the jockey-wheel. Crunch. rouxtjie 1
rouxtjie Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Thanks - the chain did not break completely - If I can explain it, one of the rivets (if that is what you call them) popped on one side (probably not "squashed" enough to keep the link closed) causing the one side of the link to open outwards, this is what hooked on the cage of the derailleur bending it backwards. My daughter was riding up a short steep road so there would have been quite a bit of strain on the chain at the time (she is 24, so not a child)Symptoms of cross-chaining / shifting under load...just saying. With enough force you can break anything
rouxtjie Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 My one mate has broken about 5 chains in the 2 years he's been riding. reason: he shifts under power. The outer link plate get's pulled off the pin and SNAP. I believe that most chain breakages happen this way. Since he has started riding single speed, no more chain issues. Moral of the story, most chain issues are rider-caused. Picture an opened-up link plate, passing over the chainring and getting wedged in the jockey-wheel. Crunch.yahtzeeeeeee divernick 1
Helpmytrap Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I am a technical oke. I have broken chains via broken hangers and weak links and s****y workmanship on chain assemblies.So here is how I think.... Most of the strain on any bike chain is at the top. So naturally the chain will break there first. So if the chain broke there, there would not have been a "link" - for the lack of a better word- between the chain ring and rear cogs that would be able to pull the jockey way past the hanger and stuffing the frame in the process.BUT....Throw a jockey with a stick and it shuts down, you give it some power to turn. NOW there is a link between the chain ring and rear cogs, the jockey will overtake the hanger, breaking it and damaging the frame. Once all this has gone to s**t, the chain will break because it will not be able to turn the wheel. this all can happen in two strokes while standing... Just a thoughtOR In probably all cases of a chain breaking on its first ride/use, it is because a monkey incorrectly installs that master pin that comes with all new Shimano chains. Now most of us weigh more than a child, so the chain fails quickly as we place more strain on it in comparison. So with a lightweight kid, it takes more time for that same failure to occur. So back to the case of the chain breaking on its first ride, when the chain fails it is always because said master pin pulls out of one of the outer plates of the chain. In one scenario the user usually finds themselves in a OTB situation/sterilization procedure as the chain separates. In the other scenario, it causes the chain to change shape from "| |" to "\ |" (you see where this is going.) Then while pedalling, the plate that is sticking out catches the rear dérailleur as it passes and pulls the dérailleur backwards causing everything to wrap around the cassette. It happens often and it will continue to happen... It is unfortunate but these things happen and it has nothing to do with the quality of a chain. EDIT, I see that this was the OP's issue. Edited February 10, 2014 by Helpmytrap
greatwhite Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 OP: I feel for you - your were sold a product, it failed, and you are expected to fix it and while others were quick to jump on you and tell you it was 'your' fault, I am not convinced. Rubbish about only the frame being covered blah blah, is nonsense. If the bike shop sold you an entire bike, then they must cover the entire bike. Wear and tear on a kids bike with minimal km - again, nonsense. The point about taking back to the bike shop - your transaction was with them and that is absolutely right Personally (and I am guilty of doing what everyone else here has done and making a call with no other evidence than your word), I rate it a faulty installation and/or chain, despite comments about 'cross chaining' and gear change damage and the like (improbable if it is a kid who is not especially strong - again, an assumption). So, with the above said, what I would like to see here is how/why Silverback determined the failure was your daughters fault and not an equipment fault - a technical explanation from Silverback, as to why it failed. Its their chance to clear their name or do the right thing
Tumbleweed Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 OP: I feel for you - your were sold a product, it failed, and you are expected to fix it and while others were quick to jump on you and tell you it was 'your' fault, I am not convinced. Rubbish about only the frame being covered blah blah, is nonsense. If the bike shop sold you an entire bike, then they must cover the entire bike. Wear and tear on a kids bike with minimal km - again, nonsense. The point about taking back to the bike shop - your transaction was with them and that is absolutely right Personally (and I am guilty of doing what everyone else here has done and making a call with no other evidence than your word), I rate it a faulty installation and/or chain, despite comments about 'cross chaining' and gear change damage and the like (improbable if it is a kid who is not especially strong - again, an assumption). So, with the above said, what I would like to see here is how/why Silverback determined the failure was your daughters fault and not an equipment fault - a technical explanation from Silverback, as to why it failed. Its their chance to clear their name or do the right thing The OP has said it's not a kid. Why would a manufacturer have to explain themselves when the OP himself has not even provided the reason given for a warranty being repudiated? All we have is his version of what he believes happened, and no evidence to back up his claim. I would happily knock Silverback - and I have sold many of them - or the bike shop - and I work in one - if there was sufficient reason to do so. There isn't here. rouxtjie 1
SilverCracker Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Thanks - the chain did not break completely - If I can explain it, one of the rivets (if that is what you call them) popped on one side (probably not "squashed" enough to keep the link closed) causing the one side of the link to open outwards, this is what hooked on the cage of the derailleur bending it backwards. My daughter was riding up a short steep road so there would have been quite a bit of strain on the chain at the time (she is 24, so not a child) Thrown stick, slightly out of place chain thingy will do the same thing...
deanbean Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Eddy, it punctured.... Its not supposed to do that. Surely? Psht......... Thats like buying a bottle that leaks! I would take that back ASAP!I swear my beer bottles leak, they get finished too quickly. Note to self, take this up with the bottle store. Jewbacca, Audible Anarchy, Tumbleweed and 2 others 5
Tumbleweed Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I swear my beer bottles leak, they get finished too quickly. Note to self, take this up with the bottle store. Yours too? I know peeps high up in breweries. Need me to talk to someone? deanbean 1
eddy Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I swear my beer bottles leak, they get finished too quickly. Note to self, take this up with the bottle store. And I have had to change my LBS (local butcher shop) because they would not replace the biltong my dog grabbed off the coffee table..... Tumbleweed 1
Tumbleweed Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) And I have had to change my LBS (local butcher shop) because they would not replace the biltong my dog grabbed off the coffee table..... I hope you returned the dog to the breeder/shelter. The other CPA (Canine Protection Act) protects you from that. Edited February 11, 2014 by Tumbleweed eddy 1
scotty Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 No complaints about Silverback from me. I bought a Moda Nine which had a few issues with some frames. Even though there was no problems with mine my LBS arranged with Silverback to replace it with a Mercury frame. Tumbleweed 1
Jewbacca Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Thanks - the chain did not break completely - If I can explain it, one of the rivets (if that is what you call them) popped on one side (probably not "squashed" enough to keep the link closed) causing the one side of the link to open outwards, this is what hooked on the cage of the derailleur bending it backwards. My daughter was riding up a short steep road so there would have been quite a bit of strain on the chain at the time (she is 24, so not a child) Cross chaining.... Thats what happens. Especially on Kiddies bikes as the stays are shorter due to smaller wheels and the angles are exaggerated. She cross chained.... seriously. Thats what she did rouxtjie 1
Squier Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 No complaints about Silverback from me. I bought a Moda Nine which had a few issues with some frames. Even though there was no problems with mine my LBS arranged with Silverback to replace it with a Mercury frame. Exactly the same thing happened to me. Also riding a Mercury frame with the rest of the Moda hardware. Anyway, after my frame replacement rebuild my chain kept on breaking. As I bought the bike at Hot Spot Cycles I had to take it back there for the warranty replacment and rebuild. I went through three chains in a month and Hot Spot also blamed it on me and said the best they could do was give me discount on a new chain. After the second chain I had enough and took the bike to Cycle-fix where Magnus' first words were "If a new chain keeps on breaking, there's something wrong with your bike". The problem was with the alignment of the Front Derailleur. They fixed it and I haven't broken a chain since. Remember, the bike arrives at your LBS in a box. They still have to build it... which they can screw up pretty easily.
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