rouxtjie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 That's all very true and well.... but its so damn expensive and still complicated for cycling even if you only got one bike...heaven forbid if you have more bikes (TT, MTB and road). I guess the runners / swimmers / biathletes etc... out there must be wondering when someone will invent a running power meter capable shoe / costume / ski so they can eliminate underperforming during training wink winkWith V12 here....power is instant, power is accurate, power isn't variable. Btw...I would also go for a powermeter in a non variable environment vs on a bike since you will want to be hitting certain power zones for certain lengths of time...this is hard on a bicycle due terrain. You can get into the power game fairly cheaply from 0-3000 odd bucks a year...IF YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK
V12man Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 That's all very true and well.... but its so damn expensive and still complicated for cycling even if you only got one bike...heaven forbid if you have more bikes (TT, MTB and road). I guess the runners / swimmers / biathletes etc... out there must be wondering when someone will invent a running power meter capable shoe / costume / ski so they can eliminate underperforming during training wink wink Power meter IS expensive - but it's not complicated to use - more complicated to interpret... There are some equivalents being worked on for runners - mostly around trying to map training stress scores - but it's never going to be easy.. especially for swimmers... except that power ALWAYS translates directly to SPEED when you exclude 2 things (stride/stroke efficiency and gearing - which in cycling both exist to make life really complicated) rouxtjie 1
SwissVan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 With V12 here....power is instant, power is accurate, power isn't variable. Btw...I would also go for a powermeter in a non variable environment vs on a bike since you will want to be hitting certain power zones for certain lengths of time...this is hard on a bicycle due terrain. You can get into the power game fairly cheaply from 0-3000 odd bucks a year...IF YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK The OP did say something about not using power. Everyone knows that power is a better tool than HR for cycle training, my point was that its not the only accurate option and for many sports its not even an option. So what reasonably accurate / consistent power meter can I buy for 3000 Zars that can quickly and easily be transferred from my road and mtb?
V12man Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 So what reasonably accurate / consistent power meter can I buy for 3000 Zars that can quickly and easily be transferred from my road and mtb? Second hand trainer that measures power... rouxtjie 1
rouxtjie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 The OP did say something about not using power. Everyone knows that power is a better tool than HR for cycle training, my point was that its not the only accurate option and for many sports its not even an option. So what reasonably accurate / consistent power meter can I buy for 3000 Zars that can quickly and easily be transferred from my road and mtb?Read again...said it will get you into the power game...not power meter...and 3000 bucks a year is the ceiling....might be as little as 0 ronds. Oh and it won't fit onto your bike.
rouxtjie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Second hand trainer that measures power...Boom one of the options...and a good one at it
SwissVan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Second hand trainer that measures power...Read again...said it will get you into the power game...not power meter...and 3000 bucks a year is the ceiling....might be as little as 0 ronds. Oh and it won't fit onto your bike.Boom one of the options...and a good one at it I thought we were talking about a power meter type device that one can use for your every day cycle training i.e. outdoors and indoors.Just like a HR monitor, that you can use anywhere...Boom? Seriously guys, the OP was looking for LTH info using a normal Garmin/Bryton, not what is better than HR Edited February 18, 2014 by SwissVan
jcza Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I thought we were talking about a power meter type device that one can use for your every day cycle training i.e. outdoors and indoors.Just like a HR monitor, that you can use anywhere...Boom? Seriously guys, the OP was looking for LTH info using a normal Garmin/Bryton, not what is better than HR Powercal strap
rouxtjie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I thought we were talking about a power meter type device that one can use for your every day cycle training i.e. outdoors and indoors.Just like a HR monitor, that you can use anywhere...Boom? Seriously guys, the OP was looking for LTH info using a normal Garmin/Bryton, not what is better than HRWe are swiss...we are....but none is as blind as the one that doesn't want to see....looking at you and the OP here. Clearly you guys want to hear something else. I wish someone gave me the advice a couple of years ago...and on that bombshell...over and out on this topic
SwissVan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 We are swiss...we are....but none is as blind as the one that doesn't want to see....looking at you and the OP here. Clearly you guys want to hear something else. I wish someone gave me the advice a couple of years ago...and on that bombshell...over and out on this topic Why blind?
SwissVan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Powercal strap Now that is a viable concept sir, and answers my question but not the OP's
Christie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Powercal strapBut that is a heart rate monitor that extrapolates power from HR. Imo if you already have a HRM, getting a powercal is pointless. Secondly, if power and HR is thus related, why bother with a power meter at all?
madmarc Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I used to do a lot of IDT work using Heart Rate Training, and was never really impressed with the results, there were too many variables. I went to Cadence Training for 8 weeks, more to understand the concept of power based training. Armed with a bit more knowledge and I have a TACX FLOW trainer with power meter, I did a 20 min FTP test setup an excel spreadsheet and designed my own 6 week power based training sets. I focus on power/wt ratio so mange the sessions as well as the diet. And all I can say is WOW!!! what a difference. One thing I did find out from Cadence Training and my new power based training regime, is that when I was doing heart rate based training I was over training and always hammered I was actually training too hard and too often with no recovery. Now having a good balance of training / rest / diet my performance improved dramatically. I do mostly MTB rouxtjie 1
V12man Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 But that is a heart rate monitor that extrapolates power from HR. Imo if you already have a HRM, getting a powercal is pointless. Secondly, if power and HR is thus related, why bother with a power meter at all? Because the powercal does not show/reflect short sharp changes in power delivery - using HR as an intermediate smooths out the 'bump's' - so when doing something like Tabata inervals it's completely useless to see the peaks and valleys of power delivery - but it's ok for things like recording and tracking TSS scores, as well as fairly steady state efforts over long periods.
rouxtjie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Because the powercal does not show/reflect short sharp changes in power delivery - using HR as an intermediate smooths out the 'bump's' - so when doing something like Tabata inervals it's completely useless to see the peaks and valleys of power delivery - but it's ok for things like recording and tracking TSS scores, as well as fairly steady state efforts over long periods.Ok I can resist I am back.... Just to back up what you are saying...here are some numbers in one workout I did a while ago...Powermeter = proper accurate and calibrated, HR monitor - Garmin edge 500. Both accurate and precise. At the same second here are some power vs hr numbers...christie, see the problem with this 1238 W @ 112bpm199W @ 131bpm215W @ 147bpm309W @ 148bpm404W @ 157bpm187W @160bpm71W @ 161bpm294W @ 161bpm
rouxtjie Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I used to do a lot of IDT work using Heart Rate Training, and was never really impressed with the results, there were too many variables. I went to Cadence Training for 8 weeks, more to understand the concept of power based training. Armed with a bit more knowledge and I have a TACX FLOW trainer with power meter, I did a 20 min FTP test setup an excel spreadsheet and designed my own 6 week power based training sets. I focus on power/wt ratio so mange the sessions as well as the diet. And all I can say is WOW!!! what a difference. One thing I did find out from Cadence Training and my new power based training regime, is that when I was doing heart rate based training I was over training and always hammered I was actually training too hard and too often with no recovery. Now having a good balance of training / rest / diet my performance improved dramatically. I do mostly MTBIf I could like your post more than once...I would What I found with HR training was that I was mostly going hard enough to strain / fatigue but not hard enough to compensate Edited February 18, 2014 by rouxtjie
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