I rode a 650b

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

The tribe has spoken [poll]

 

By far, most would buy 650B

 

'Nuff said

 

I probably would, too. Depends if the bike I want to replace the giant with is in 650 only, or if the 650 version is better ito geometry and so on compared to the 26er. But I wouldn't sell the giant JUST to get a 650 cos onygodtheyrejustsoawesomeimgonnadie!

[Wyatt Earp]

Agreed, possibly a very simplistic way of looking at it. Yes, the 29er has better roll-over and will possible be more comfortable in the saddle resulting in an improvement of time but not the 2 to 3 hours as claimed by the OP

 

Let me put it like this, and Nigel actually outlined it quite nicely as well.

 

I will start with this.

 

I have been on 29'ers now for 7 years, when the whole 27.5 inch became a reality I was fully against it, all it did was that it took me back to my triathlon days where guys were trying the 650 b option as a from trispoke and the disc at the rear, it really seemed like an arb. move to me, I was dead set against it.

 

A few reasons, the geometry on some bikes looked rather odd, and they rode rather odd.

Some companies have bought in to it quickly not wanting to miss the bus, Scott, Silverback and Volcan to name a few, they have worked optimised and tweaked their bikes around the wheel size.

I sold a Ritchey 27.5 to a good mate of mine, he is strong and fit ,a martial arts nut and almost has no off switch, I tried to talk him out of it, he is not very tall (not that height has anything to do with it)

But he couldn't stop raving.

 

We have subsequently moved a few 27.5's and I see a great purpose for them.

I see them being a great option for beginner riders who lack some good skill (reasons I will explain), I see them for riders who have a lot of skill, especially where I see these bikes would really excel, and that is on the free ride and enduro arena of riding.

I also feel that for the majority of XC courses that 27.5 is the #1 option.

 

I do believe that for general and all use bikes that the 26 " bikes days are numbered.

I feel that the 26 " wheel size is great for downhill and extreme free riding.

The 27.5 can do all this as well and help riders get that wheel over stuff a bit easier and here I am referring to the less dynamic or capable rider.

 

The 29'er turns like a pig in tight stuff, it doesn't float like a butterfly in less flowing track and in the hands of a rider that struggles to hold the bars straight on a straight dirt road, you can well imagine how they would struggle in tight sections and on single tracks.

 

Personally I prefer the 29 inch wheel size, it covers all the terrain I ride with ease, it suits my style of riding and I am not scared to get off and push when a section looks too hazardous to me.

I hopped on a 26'er the other day and I nearly crapped my pants, the front end felt very noodly and unsafe.

 

In short , three wheel sizes and they all serve a purpose, that purpose is for its intended use and the skill level of the circus monkey that turns the pedals.

[nathrix]

I rode a beautiful carbon 650b this weekend, almost thought I was on my old 26", it sucked

 

EDIT 01: I have added a poll

EDIT 02: Added 26" and 29" options and you have multiple choices now.

[Flowta]

That's just it - he is saying strokes for folks and so on. But he's also taking the Piss out of the whole marketing spiel that has been fed to us regarding 650 and it's special place on the podium when it doesn't actually make all that much of a difference at all. Not like a niner does in some respects, that is. It's all down to geo.

 

If you can't see the tongue firmly in the cheek when he responds to other posts, then... well...

 

The more you get riled up the more he giggles. Proving the point on how marketing has done its job, to an extent

 

Yes, he's a troll.

 

F$ck marketing, I didn't buy my bike because of the wheels. And you chose to keep your Reign due to it having slacker angles/better geometry, which in a sense also came from sort of marketing.

 

Physically a 650B is bigger in diameter than a 26er, 25mm to be exact.

 

29er is 38mm bigger in diameter than a 650B.

 

The above is FACT. No marketing needed there.

 

All of this is depending on the tyres being equal, otherwise there is no point in comparison.

 

Using this, in theory the 650B will have a better roll-over than a 26er but not as much as a 29er. But then again, if the bike is *** then your ride is going to be ***, regardless of the wheelsize.

 

My Diamondback is still superfun to ride, the steel frame making more of a difference than fitting fat 26er tyres or skinny 650Bs.

 

One of my all time favourites is my dad's old Bridgestone MB3. Handling is superb, but the rigid fork takes getting used to if you been on a longtravel machine.

 

As I've said Horses for Courses.

 

Especially one troll fishing to get animated responses... am will Flowta on this one!!

 

I probably would, too. Depends if the bike I want to replace the giant with is in 650 only, or if the 650 version is better ito geometry and so on compared to the 26er. But I wouldn't sell the giant JUST to get a 650 cos onygodtheyrejustsoawesomeimgonnadie!

 

No-one said you should

[dirtrider]

This is about as useful as the discussion about "proper flat pedal shoes " . waste of time and money .

[nathrix]

Yes, he's a troll.

 

F$ck marketing, I didn't buy my bike because of the wheels. And you chose to keep your Reign due to it having slacker angles/better geometry, which in a sense also came from sort of marketing.

 

Physically a 650B is bigger in diameter than a 26er, 25mm to be exact.

 

29er is 38mm bigger in diameter than a 650B.

 

The above is FACT. No marketing needed there.

 

All of this is depending on the tyres being equal, otherwise there is no point in comparison.

 

Using this, in theory the 650B will have a better roll-over than a 26er but not as much as a 29er. But then again, if the bike is *** then your ride is going to be ***, regardless of the wheelsize.

 

My Diamondback is still superfun to ride, the steel frame making more of a difference than fitting fat 26er tyres or skinny 650Bs.

 

One of my all time favourites is my dad's old Bridgestone MB3. Handling is superb, but the rigid fork takes getting used to if you been on a longtravel machine.

 

As I've said Horses for Courses.

 

 

 

 

 

No-one said you should

 

You owe me a new keyboard, just spilled some coffee on it, stop it now hahahahahaha

 

RELAX dude, I'm convinced

 

Where's all you other jokers out there, come give some input.

[nathrix]

That's just it - he is saying strokes for folks and so on. But he's also taking the Piss out of the whole marketing spiel that has been fed to us regarding 650 and it's special place on the podium when it doesn't actually make all that much of a difference at all. Not like a niner does in some respects, that is. It's all down to geo.

 

If you can't see the tongue firmly in the cheek when he responds to other posts, then... well...

 

The more you get riled up the more he giggles. Proving the point on how marketing has done its job, to an extent

 

The best post on here so far

[GoLefty!!]

I bought my bike for ..... the bike, wheelsize had nothing to do with it. If Giant had put the "same" bike out in a 26" version I would have bought that one. The difference in diameter between the 26" and 650B is 25mm, assuming the SAME width tyres. And the difference between a 650B and 29er is 38mm I assume the bikes you tested were both hardtails? I don't see the point of 650B hardtails (except maybe for smaller riders), if a manufacturer can't produce a 29er with decent geometry by now then maybe I should steer away from that brand. But in the great scheme of things you get

• Good 26ers and bad 26ers
• Good 650Bs and bad 650Bs
• Good 29ers and bad 29ers

The rest comes down to personal preference and horses for courses. I'll stick with my 650B Giant Trance and my 26" 1993 Diamondback Apex Singlespeed for now, when finances and time ride allow I will possibly get a 29er (I don't have the luxury of riding time to put a 29er to good use).

 

 

 

Flow, hang on to those bikes longer mate.

 

On Friday I had the opportunity to ride twoniners and my 09 Scalpel Carbon1 back to back (well almost).

Although the niners were really good bikes hen I hopped onto my Scalpel the feel wasn't that different.

Now that's a testimony to the leaps 29geometry has taken over the last 9years. Neither felt like a bus but neither gave my same cosy feeling of sitting in the bike either. Compared to the 26er both felt high and at certain points on Vasbyt, I cold feel that slight hesitation to want to turn in compared to the 26er.

 

Been 12 years since I rode a fully rigid 650b hardtail so I can't compare any of the new 650's to the latest (If anyshop has a Scott Spark 700 series or latest Giant Anthem I'd love to compare the 29er to the 650b back to back.

 

why I find it hard to part ith my 26er is because I'm more Schurter like in build than Absalon, so I tend to not like lots of short steep climbs on a trail. The lighter 26er wheels just feel more comfortable to get going over and after the obstacles.

Well tuned suspension also makes the descents just as much fun on either wheel size.

 

I also didn;t feel this Roll Over superiority thats often refered to, probabl because my 26er is a medium and therefore has a longer front centre than most bikes a LBS would recommend for me. The longer front centre give me a coupl of advantages:

1. I'm further behind the contact patch so I'm more stable going over things
   
2. the wheelbase in longer making the bike more stable overall.
   

If I compare some of the number of the medium size rocky mountain element to my scalpel they stack up similarly except my Scalpel is slightly longer in the top tube.

 

So the reason the bikes felt similar has bugger all to do with wheel size but everything to do with where my weight is placed between the wheels.

 

IMO< ride the bike you like but make sure it fits you.

 

a 29er faster in a stage race? LOL really,tell that to the multitude of 26er riders who finished ahead of 29ers at the ACE, and the 650 riders who featured prominently at the front of the race over the last 4 days. Anyone who buys into this crap should take a course on drivetrains, and gearing.

 

A very good reason to buy a 29er is that every shop is pushing it so hard right now. I was watching some videos's on the debate on wheelsize between manufacturers at Eurobike and many are convinced that 650b is the way the direction the industry will settle. No one is convinced that 29er will last more than another 5 years simply because of the number of extra parts for all these wheel sizes that needs to be catered for.

 

Wheel manufacturers want 29er and wide 700c for road because it will reduce the number of dies and moulds they require (A huge factor in the high cost of components today).

 

Frame manufacturers want 650b because they can use parts from their enduro bikes on XC bikes meaning fewer tools and lowing production costs.

 

only thing that they all agree on is that 26 is dead

[Flowta]

Let me put it like this, and Nigel actually outlined it quite nicely as well.

 

I will start with this.

 

I have been on 29'ers now for 7 years, when the whole 27.5 inch became a reality I was fully against it, all it did was that it took me back to my triathlon days where guys were trying the 650 b option as a from trispoke and the disc at the rear, it really seemed like an arb. move to me, I was dead set against it.

 

A few reasons, the geometry on some bikes looked rather odd, and they rode rather odd.

Some companies have bought in to it quickly not wanting to miss the bus, Scott, Silverback and Volcan to name a few, they have worked optimised and tweaked their bikes around the wheel size.

I sold a Ritchey 27.5 to a good mate of mine, he is strong and fit ,a martial arts nut and almost has no off switch, I tried to talk him out of it, he is not very tall (not that height has anything to do with it)

But he couldn't stop raving.

 

We have subsequently moved a few 27.5's and I see a great purpose for them.

I see them being a great option for beginner riders who lack some good skill (reasons I will explain), I see them for riders who have a lot of skill, especially where I see these bikes would really excel, and that is on the free ride and enduro arena of riding.

I also feel that for the majority of XC courses that 27.5 is the #1 option.

 

I do believe that for general and all use bikes that the 26 " bikes days are numbered.

I feel that the 26 " wheel size is great for downhill and extreme free riding.

The 27.5 can do all this as well and help riders get that wheel over stuff a bit easier and here I am referring to the less dynamic or capable rider.

 

The 29'er turns like a pig in tight stuff, it doesn't float like a butterfly in less flowing track and in the hands of a rider that struggles to hold the bars straight on a straight dirt road, you can well imagine how they would struggle in tight sections and on single tracks.

 

Personally I prefer the 29 inch wheel size, it covers all the terrain I ride with ease, it suits my style of riding and I am not scared to get off and push when a section looks too hazardous to me.

I hopped on a 26'er the other day and I nearly crapped my pants, the front end felt very noodly and unsafe.

 

In short , three wheel sizes and they all serve a purpose, that purpose is for its intended use and the skill level of the circus monkey that turns the pedals.

 

Wyatt, I think we're talking around each about the same thing and in agreement.

 

The most important things in order

1. Personal Preference
   
2. The right tool for the job, if you have that luxury.
   

26" wheels/tyres for MTB use AFAIK only came about by accident and what was available at the time.

 

It doesn't come as any suprise that Gary Fisher was one of the first proponents of 29er.

 

I for one am glad that there is more choice is the market

 

I do have one small correction, the wheels you would have seen on the triathlon scene are/were 650C. (my apologies, I'm not trying to be condescending)

 

650B as a wheel size has been around for a longtime, I believe longer than 26", but I'm most likely wrong. They have been widely used in Europe on touring bikes.

 

From Sheldon

http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

French sizes:

 

In the French system, the first number is the nominal diameter in mm, followed by a letter code for the width: "A" is narrow, "D" is wide. The letter codes no longer correspond to the tire width, since narrow tires are often made for rim sizes that originally took wide tires; for example, 700 C was originally a wide size, but now is available in very narrow widths, with actual diameters as small as 660 mm.

650 A 590 mm French version of 26 x 1 3/8; Italian high-performance bikes for smaller riders 650 B 584 mm French utility bikes, tandems, and loaded-touring bikes; some older Raleigh and Schwinn mountain bikes 650 C 571 mm Triathlon, time trial, high performance road bikes for smaller riders

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

Yes, he's a troll.

 

F$ck marketing, I didn't buy my bike because of the wheels. And you chose to keep your Reign due to it having slacker angles/better geometry, which in a sense also came from sort of marketing.

 

Physically a 650B is bigger in diameter than a 26er, 25mm to be exact.

 

29er is 38mm bigger in diameter than a 650B.

 

The above is FACT. No marketing needed there.

 

All of this is depending on the tyres being equal, otherwise there is no point in comparison.

 

Using this, in theory the 650B will have a better roll-over than a 26er but not as much as a 29er. But then again, if the bike is *** then your ride is going to be ***, regardless of the wheelsize.

 

My Diamondback is still superfun to ride, the steel frame making more of a difference than fitting fat 26er tyres or skinny 650Bs.

 

One of my all time favourites is my dad's old Bridgestone MB3. Handling is superb, but the rigid fork takes getting used to if you been on a longtravel machine.

 

As I've said Horses for Courses.

 

 

 

 

 

No-one said you should

 

But is it enduro?

[Flowta]

But is it enduro?

 

You're doing it wrong

 

#ENDURO

[GoLefty!!]

That's just it - he is saying strokes for folks and so on. But he's also taking the Piss out of the whole marketing spiel that has been fed to us regarding 650 and it's special place on the podium when it doesn't actually make all that much of a difference at all. Not like a niner does in some respects, that is. It's all down to geo. If you can't see the tongue firmly in the cheek when he responds to other posts, then... well... The more you get riled up the more he giggles. Proving the point on how marketing has done its job, to an extent

 

 

theres just as much merrit in taking the piss out of the marketing spiel we were fed on 29ers.

 

The only FACT is that one of the biggest manufacturers has said 650b is the future and we will keep 29 for now but we see it dying.

Yeah thats probably marketing too because the bike companies all want to position themselves as the brand catering for you needs.

The elephant in the room is that a company like GIANT does not make decisions like "We're going 650b because its the future" just for a marketing risk. They have analysed the economics of the decision and that ultimately is going to decide whats best from a manufacturing POV.

 

Then everyone lse who has their bikes built by Giant will see the light and say they've analysed the debate and 650b has more development legs and its better for the consumer to have more standard parts blah blah blah. FACT, whats best for you is what the manufacturers say is best for you......lap it up

 

 

My next post will contain boobies and will likely not be safe for work

Edited June 3, 2014 by GoLefty!!

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

You're doing it wrong

 

#ENDURO

 

Tapatalk while walking

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

You're doing it wrong

 

#ENDURO

 

Oh... you're also missing a © ®

[GoLefty!!]

he's not taking about a Spaz. He would get sued if he was

[Flowta]

 

That didn't seem to come out right

 

I see GT also tried a 700D which is only 3mm bigger than the 650B