Trail Runners in Tokai...

[droo]

even better would be gro pro footage turned into gif format to demostrate simple harmonic motion

 

Does it still count as SHM if there are 2 things oscillating? What if there's interference from an outside source? As a suspension techie, can I offer to provide some rudimentary damping?

 

So many questions...

[droo]

On a serious note though, running up a DH track and expecting riders to give way to you is assisted suicide. Signage at the parking lot clearly setting out the rules of engagement is essential - I know it's in the planning stages, but needs to be expedited in the interests of safety.

 

All we need is one incident.

[Capricorn]

Does it still count as SHM if there are 2 things oscillating? What if there's interference from an outside source? As a suspension techie, can I offer to provide some rudimentary damping?

 

So many questions...

 

yes, still SHM with 2 nodes because they oscillating in-phase. No additional damping required, as that would imply a rest state or prolonged residence at an anti-node. Not desirable.

[SpyDude]

When last did you hike up to ele's eye.. did it the other day and man there are some sick trails on that route... would LOVE to ride down from there... climb will be a bit of a bitch, but not if you start from on top of Ou Kaapse Weg... also.. mushrooms!

[GoLefty!!]

Does it still count as SHM if there are 2 things oscillating? What if there's interference from an outside source? As a suspension techie, can I offer to provide some rudimentary damping? So many questions...

 

depends are they oscillating independantly and undamped or in unison and undamped. closer inspection is definately required. As an engineer and tribologist, I need to take things apart to fully understand the concepts beyond a hypothesis. Only then can I assess the wear taking place and recommend a suitable maintenance schedule

Edited June 3, 2014 by GoLefty!!

[Capricorn]

On a serious note though, running up a DH track and expecting riders to give way to you is assisted suicide. Signage at the parking lot clearly setting out the rules of engagement is essential - I know it's in the planning stages, but needs to be expedited in the interests of safety.

 

All we need is one incident.

 

and with the speeds guys are picking up in general because the trail's been manicured, its going to be a pretty impressive impact. Frankly, there should be a reminder sign at the entry to the trail as well. Ppl are too busy being social to actually read the parking lot sign, especially if they are not new to Tokai.

[Capricorn]

When last did you hike up to ele's eye.. did it the other day and man there are some sick trails on that route... would LOVE to ride down from there... climb will be a bit of a bitch, but not if you start from on top of Ou Kaapse Weg... also.. mushrooms!

 

i know right! was up there about a month ago. Some of those walking trails look mighty tempting. But boy oh boy must you commit or risk jamming a wheel and self-ejecting into some seriously rocky hurt.

[SpyDude]

On a serious note though, running up a DH track and expecting riders to give way to you is assisted suicide. Signage at the parking lot clearly setting out the rules of engagement is essential - I know it's in the planning stages, but needs to be expedited in the interests of safety.

 

All we need is one incident.

There have been many incidents, but thankfully a jogger hasnt been harmed.. cant say the same for the riders who swerved to avoid them... but we dont seem to ever report that, wipes are part of the game. On friday i was shooting some riders on the new jump on vasbyt... whole troop of joggers come jogging up the trail, now as you know, that jump is semi blind to the last minute. I warned them 4 times by shouting RIDER, but they just carried on...like lemmings. Adi had to lock up just before the jump and when i turned around there were like 6 more!!! Granted i lost my cool and tuned some choice words when i didn't get the response i thought we would get (Sorry?) but ya, that was my buddy going over the jump.

[Capricorn]

is there a tokai trail runners FB page? it would be nice we could liaise with them, as it would seem they have their own understanding of who has right of way on the trails. Signage and re-education required for all it seems.

 

Pain or Shine: what's the historical situation wrt to right of way on multi-directional trails like vasbyt? Are they multi-user or dedicated to cyclists?

[Lone_Ranger]

There have been many incidents, but thankfully a jogger hasnt been harmed.. cant say the same for the riders who swerved to avoid them... but we dont seem to ever report that, wipes are part of the game. On friday i was shooting some riders on the new jump on vasbyt... whole troop of joggers come jogging up the trail, now as you know, that jump is semi blind to the last minute. I warned them 4 times by shouting RIDER, but they just carried on...like lemmings. Adi had to lock up just before the jump and when i turned around there were like 6 more!!! Granted i lost my cool and tuned some choice words when i didn't get the response i thought we would get (Sorry?) but ya, that was my buddy going over the jump.

 

With the new and improved Vasbyt, and the speed you carry, I think its time to start the debate about changing Vasbyt to a down only route. Speed + jumps + blind corners don't gel well with both runners and ascending bikers. But I think this was discussed in another fred, so hijack off.

[Headshot]

I am with you on this one SpyDude but its not only the trail runners.

 

Last week I was riding up the jeep track to see an XC rider and his tjom riding up the last piece of Vasbyt and the big berm!! Straight past the tiny sign nogal. I shouted loudly at them but they ignored me. I caught the guy up near boulders and asked him if it was him on the berm. He admitted it but was quick to tell me that he is a "racer" and knows what he's doing and this was the first time in more than a year he'd done that. I warned him about the dh speed issue and that dhers and others used the late afternoons to train, which he was unaware of.

 

Trail and Tar has a running group do they not? Perhaps a good place to start would be there. They should not be on Vasbyt and definitely not on the dh lines.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

is there a tokai trail runners FB page? it would be nice we could liaise with them, as it would seem they have their own understanding of who has right of way on the trails. Signage and re-education required for all it seems.

 

Pain or Shine: what's the historical situation wrt to right of way on multi-directional trails like vasbyt? Are they multi-user or dedicated to cyclists?

 

A big step would be to approach the Trail and Tar running group. It's a large group indeed, and it's a platform that could be used to get the message across in a proper way.

[finallygotabike]

Seeing the same with the ParkRuns here in Bryanston on Sat mornings along the Spruit - no courtesy shown to fellow Spruit users.

[TokaiMTB]

First TokaiMTB post... So officially, all I can say about runners on mtb trails at the moment is that we are discussing it as a committee still (we have been in existence for 3 months and are meeting once a week nowadays, trying to get as much done as possible but you have to remember we have paying jobs as well). We have been focusing on many other important details like trail work, future trails, funding and the website, so please bear with us.

 

Most of us don't want runners on our mtb specific trails due to the danger it creates so we are hoping to be going in that direction. Signs are desperately needed all over Tokai and we are working on that too!

 

One question I'd like to ask is what would the 'rules for runners' be if they were allowed on the mtb trails? There is talk of Tokai charging for trail runners...

These are our thoughts;

Not all trails can be shared. Vasbyt and DH trails are prime examples-the speed is just too high and the jumps create situations where riders wouldn't be able to stop in time.

I-pods should be banned if you are trail running so that runners can hear mtbers

Mtbers have right of way always-it's a mtb trail

Run against the flow (if its a unidirectional mtb trail)

Is there anything else to consider as a rule?

 

TheHUB might be a good place to make a poll asking whether Tokai riders would like to share mtb trails with runners-just saying...

 

We have approached the Trail and Tar running group. They say that their group leader insists that mtbers have right of way on the trails. If that's the case then signage would be the next best bet to educate runners on trail right of way. Unfortunately I don't know what the official ruling (TMNP's) is wrt runners on mtb trails is but we will discuss next week.

Edited June 3, 2014 by TokaiMTB

[Flowta]

is there a tokai trail runners FB page? it would be nice we could liaise with them, as it would seem they have their own understanding of who has right of way on the trails. Signage and re-education required for all it seems.

 

Pain or Shine: what's the historical situation wrt to right of way on multi-directional trails like vasbyt? Are they multi-user or dedicated to cyclists?

 

From https://www.facebook.com/tokaimtb

Tokaimtb mountainbike central We agree with your points Ivo. The Tokai MTB committee has been appointed with the responsibilities you mention and we are working on those points (as well as a lot more!). The website has been setup (as well as this page) as a communication channel but a sign at the entrance would be first prize as far as communication goes-we are working on it! As far as runners go-at this time there is no permission given to runners being allowed to use mtb trails, but neither have they been banned from mtb trails. It's quite a hot topic and needs to be carefully considered.

[Capricorn]

First TokaiMTB post... So officially, all I can say about runners on mtb trails at the moment is that we are discussing it as a committee still (we have been in existence for 3 months and are meeting once a week nowadays, trying to get as much done as possible but you have to remember we have paying jobs as well). We have been focusing on many other important details like trail work, future trails, funding and the website, so please bear with us.

 

Most of us don't want runners on our mtb specific trails due to the danger it creates so we are hoping to be going in that direction. Signs are desperately needed all over Tokai and we are working on that too!

 

One question I'd like to ask is what would the 'rules for runners' be if they were allowed on the mtb trails? There is talk of Tokai charging for trail runners...

These are our thoughts;

Not all trails can be shared. Vasbyt and DH trails are prime examples-the speed is just too high and the jumps create situations where riders wouldn't be able to stop in time.

I-pods should be banned if you are trail running so that runners can hear mtbers

Mtbers have right of way always-it's a mtb trail

Run against the flow (if its a unidirectional mtb trail)

Is there anything else to consider as a rule?

 

TheHUB might be a good place to make a poll asking whether Tokai riders would like to share mtb trails with runners-just saying...

 

We have approached the Trail and Tar running group. They say that their group leader insists that mtbers have right of way on the trails. If that's the case then signage would be the next best bet to educate runners on trail right of way. Unfortunately I don't know what the official ruling (TMNP's) is wrt runners on mtb trails is but we will discuss next week.

 

the trails shouldn't be shared if there's a lack of visibility combined with high-speed sections. As the experience builds, so does the speed. WIth all that undergrowth that i'm sure cannot be trimmed down, its best if the runners are directed away from the MTB trails. The DH line: no question: banned.

Mamba is not too bad, AT the MOment. but once the growth settles in, you won't be able to see any one coming up or down. Ban runners now.

But what about riding up? there's similar lack of visibility, and to mention a serious lack of gettinOutOfTheWayQUickness for someone riding up. A runner has far more mobility in terms of crash avoidance, if we ban them, should the trails take on uni-directionality?