Trends we picked up in claims as insurers of bicycles

[Tumbleweed]

 

Unfortunateley we will not divulge this information as we prefer to make use of this when we suspect this type of situation. I can say the situation we came across was from a cyclist that was offered a bike and told that he can be supplied any bike he wants to order at a price he could not refuse. The bike he was offered was stolen so we put two and two together.

 

 

 

Hi

 

We are more than willing to share information and stats but by the continual attack on our posts makes it very difficult to answer in a manner which would be constructive.

 

We also don't want to be seen as looking for business.

 

We afraid we possibly made an error in trying to engage on this platform.

 

Lest you see this as an attack, I had to ask my question twice, yet you choose to obfuscate rather. Are you willing or not willing to divulge the information. The topic heading suggests you are, but, when pressed for detail, you show your hand, and your hand is found wanting. I am genuinely interested in this topic. I have written about bike thefts and robberies before, and have struggled to get any solid data from insurance companies or police contacts. Your thread hints at trends yet there is nothing in your opening post that adds anything concrete. Like dassie says, some of the questions posted here are in the interest of creating robust and constructive debate.

[BarHugger]

 

 

 

 

Lest you see this as an attack, I had to ask my question twice, yet you choose to obfuscate rather. Are you willing or not willing to divulge the information. The topic heading suggests you are, but, when pressed for detail, you show your hand, and your hand is found wanting. I am genuinely interested in this topic. I have written about bike thefts and robberies before, and have struggled to get any solid data from insurance companies or police contacts. Your thread hints at trends yet there is nothing in your opening post that adds anything concrete. Like dassie says, some of the questions posted here are in the interest of creating robust and constructive debate.

 

......why debate if all that is needed is common sense and a gut feeling.....Africa style.

[Uni]

 

 

......why debate if all that is needed is common sense and a gut feeling.....Africa style.

While there may not be actual evidence/data I'm not surprised that this may well be the case, yes there are many opportunistic thefts, but regarding the high end bikes I'm sure there are orders. If it happens with cars, why not with bikes.

From a person wanting a certain bike and not being willing /able to pay the price to someone needing a specific part and willing to turn a blind eye to where it might come from.

 

 

 

[blondeonabike]

I dont understand why the data would not be made public. Does it not make sense that people would be extra vigilant in those areas, ultimatley reducing the incidents of theft and the amount of claims that would need to be payed out. Unless, like cars people are charged premiums according to their 'risk profile' which includes where they stay and ride, and maybe those that are not living in a hot spot are being charged the same as others that are. I smell a stinky

[GLuvsMtb]

As a matter of interest, what would have been your policy on insuring bikes for transport overseas? We will be leaving shortly to race in Hawaii, and wanted to take out a short-term policy for both bikes, should they arrive damaged on the other side, or worse not at all. One of the other Cycle-specific insurers (who has got a lot of negative publicity on this forum of late) wasn't even prepared to entertain the concept. All of the other generic insurers had no problem whatsoever offering a solution - they only required a minimum period of three months, which I thought was more than reasonable.....

Should you then not consider specifying this on your travel insurance?

[rouxtjie]

I dont understand why the data would not be made public. Does it not make sense that people would be extra vigilant in those areas, ultimatley reducing the incidents of theft and the amount of claims that would need to be payed out. Unless, like cars people are charged premiums according to their 'risk profile' which includes where they stay and ride, and maybe those that are not living in a hot spot are being charged the same as others that are. I smell a stinky

Exactly BlondOne...

 

I will take it 1 step further and offer to prepare the data into meaningfull reports for us if you dont have the resources. I-cycle, I am sincere wrt this..you can omit any sensitive data(POPI / address / contact details) since they are meaningless anyway from an analytics point of view

 

A data extract, something along the lines of

 

Gender

Age

Time of day

Date

Bike make

Bike model

GPS location

 

Will be a great start, I will publish the reports here for all to benefit from.

 

What you say, lets turn this getting off on the wrong foot around 180 deg?

[I-cycle]

Lest you see this as an attack, I had to ask my question twice, yet you choose to obfuscate rather. Are you willing or not willing to divulge the information. The topic heading suggests you are, but, when pressed for detail, you show your hand, and your hand is found wanting. I am genuinely interested in this topic. I have written about bike thefts and robberies before, and have struggled to get any solid data from insurance companies or police contacts. Your thread hints at trends yet there is nothing in your opening post that adds anything concrete. Like dassie says, some of the questions posted here are in the interest of creating robust and constructive debate.

 

We have discussed this at length and may have come up with a manner in which we can supply information on this in a more controlled manner.

 

The problem we have is that we insure a very small and niche portion of the market. Also a vast majority of people insure their bikes with their household contents so we don't have access to this information when a bike is stolen which means the data we would supply is for a small segment of the insured cyclists. Also I get the impression that a lot of individuals on this forum don't insure.

 

We will look at developing a help line linked to a sms system that will automatically sms a look out alert in the event a bike is stolen or hijacked. The most important factor is that we would need to get cyclists to register on the service. The service would be free of charge and unconditional. We then envisage on a monthly basis via a website give out information like we have in this post and also using a Google map type scenario show all hot spots. This will also help us correlate statistics from more than one source and hopefully supply some valuable information on hijackings as an example.

 

Maybe having looked at your post, you might find it beneficial to part of the development of this. If you are please email me on sean@policyprovider.co.za

 

Regards

Sean

[GLuvsMtb]

For me another burning question is insurance fraud. Has there been any convictions on this? For instance... I no longer like my 26 inch wheels and the last time I replaced a component was 2 years ago, so my bike "disappear" from my bike rack. 4 years ago I paid R50k for it, so now that is what I am claiming, although I would be lucky to get R15k if I try and sell it online.

Another scenario: I sell my bike and 2 weeks later I rock up at my broker with a cut chain and say the bike got nicked from my bike rack.

[I-cycle]

Exactly BlondOne...

 

I will take it 1 step further and offer to prepare the data into meaningfull reports for us if you dont have the resources. I-cycle, I am sincere wrt this..you can omit any sensitive data(POPI / address / contact details) since they are meaningless anyway from an analytics point of view

 

A data extract, something along the lines of

 

Gender

Age

Time of day

Date

Bike make

Bike model

GPS location

 

Will be a great start, I will publish the reports here for all to benefit from.

 

What you say, lets turn this getting off on the wrong foot around 180 deg?

 

 

We have discussed this at length and may have come up with a manner in which we can supply information on this in a more controlled manner.

 

The problem we have is that we insure a very small and niche portion of the market. Also a vast majority of people insure their bikes with their household contents so we don't have access to this information when a bike is stolen which means the data we would supply is for a small segment of the insured cyclists. Also I get the impression that a lot of individuals on this forum don't insure.

 

We will look at developing a help line linked to a sms system that will automatically sms a look out alert in the event a bike is stolen or hijacked. The most important factor is that we would need to get cyclists to register on the service. The service would be free of charge and unconditional. We then envisage on a monthly basis via a website give out information like we have in this post and also using a Google map type scenario show all hot spots. This will also help us correlate statistics from more than one source and hopefully supply some valuable information on hijackings as an example.

[mazambaan]

While I don't understand why detailed data isn't divulged it seems the same with car theft. I couldn't find up to date statistics on the number of cars of any specific type that were stolen. Any ideas?

[I-cycle]

For me another burning question is insurance fraud. Has there been any convictions on this? For instance... I no longer like my 26 inch wheels and the last time I replaced a component was 2 years ago, so my bike "disappear" from my bike rack. 4 years ago I paid R50k for it, so now that is what I am claiming, although I would be lucky to get R15k if I try and sell it online.

Another scenario: I sell my bike and 2 weeks later I rock up at my broker with a cut chain and say the bike got nicked from my bike rack.

 

This is a real problem for us and we are sure we have these however don't often catch the person. We have had two situations where we have got solid evidence of the client doing this and they simply never pursue the claim when confronted. Unfortunately this does become a matter for the SAPS to deal with and it's is left to them. Coincidentally the one individual even posted a complaint about us on Hub which was withdrawn.

 

This is the dilemma we have.

[I-cycle]

While I don't understand why detailed data isn't divulged it seems the same with car theft. I couldn't find up to date statistics on the number of cars of any specific type that were stolen. Any ideas?

 

Here is a website address you can see some figures

 

http://sacrime.info/?p=48

[rouxtjie]

We have discussed this at length and may have come up with a manner in which we can supply information on this in a more controlled manner.

 

The problem we have is that we insure a very small and niche portion of the market. Also a vast majority of people insure their bikes with their household contents so we don't have access to this information when a bike is stolen which means the data we would supply is for a small segment of the insured cyclists. Also I get the impression that a lot of individuals on this forum don't insure.

 

We will look at developing a help line linked to a sms system that will automatically sms a look out alert in the event a bike is stolen or hijacked. The most important factor is that we would need to get cyclists to register on the service. The service would be free of charge and unconditional. We then envisage on a monthly basis via a website give out information like we have in this post and also using a Google map type scenario show all hot spots. This will also help us correlate statistics from more than one source and hopefully supply some valuable information on hijackings as an example.

I understand that you cannot divulge any personal information and want it controlled...hence me not wanting any of this that could compromise you. The sensitive data actually holds very little value its more the grouping patterns...things like

 

Time of day at specific locations

Day of week

Manufacturer and model...

Age and gender(are the scum going after softer targets)

 

Offer stands

[eddy]

While I don't understand why detailed data isn't divulged it seems the same with car theft. I couldn't find up to date statistics on the number of cars of any specific type that were stolen. Any ideas?

 

There was an interesting ariticle covering bike theft in the San Francisco region where they drew the risk/reward ratio of various crimes.

 

Something like robbing a bank would obviously give a large reward but a very risky one. Nobody lets a bank robbery go. Bank security creates a dangerous environment and the cops always pursue it.

 

Stealing a bike is not quite on the opposite side of the continuum, but sits at the sweetspot where the rewards are not insignificant, bit the risk negligible. Bikes are easy to steal and even in California the cops would not allocate a detective to investigate. Even when the thief is apprehended, the system did not prosecute and the perp got off with at most a slap on the wrist.

 

 

[Akon]

yup, but I let plenty slide. In this instance it looks really bad as we all know you need to check your policy with a fine tooth comb before signing it. You'd expect the guys on the other side of the fence to be just a little bit meticulous (I know he was giving a post on a webpage but the attitude is the same).

 

but ja, there is a still an error in that sentence. I'm guessing that the OP is looking for more business(I'm fine with that) with this thread, but on a back foot with me just on that.

 

There, fixed part of it --> leaving the rest to you to spot...

[Andymann]

Should you then not consider specifying this on your travel insurance?

We looked at that - travel insurance is weighted heavily towards covering your medical expenses (which we have through our Medical Aid) and doesn't cover baggage loss as much - in our case we would have been covered for R6500 per bike - not even enough to replace one Zipp wheel.