JSE Investing

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Just to clarify. Me, myself, due to the fact that I already have RA & pension (my wife's from her resignation) and so on, I'm doing the above through Allan Gray. MSCI World Index Feeder Fund is available on their platform. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by Myles Mayhew

[mtbride]

Just to clarify. Me, myself, due to the fact that I already have RA & pension (my wife's from her resignation) and so on, I'm doing the above through Allan Gray. MSCI World Index Feeder Fund is available on their platform. 

 

That fund has been going crazy up in the past 3 years ... 96%

 

http://www.fundsdata.co.za/index.htm?load=1

 

Why oh why did I not go offshore 5 years ago ...

 

We have pulled all our local stocks from SATRIX, they are into our bond, paying that off as fast as possible for the time being.

 

Would it be beneficial to do that World index fund through Db xtrackers directly? Save from going through a middle man, or are they just like Allan Gray basically?

Edited February 12, 2016 by Kraggie

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

That fund has been going crazy up in the past 3 years ... 96%

 

http://www.fundsdata.co.za/index.htm?load=1

 

Why oh why did I not go offshore 5 years ago ...

 

We have pulled all our local stocks from SATRIX, they are into our bond, paying that off as fast as possible for the time being.

 

Would it be beneficial to do that World index fund through Db xtrackers directly? Save from going through a middle man, or are they just like Allan Gray basically?

the Allan Gray platform is, IMO, fantastic. They're charging a 0.46% (incl VAT) p/a admin fee for the platform, so as far as I see it, it's as close as darnit to being free. 

 

Having said that - if you can invest through Db X trackers directly, it'd be cutting out on an additional layer of management costs, given that SANLAM (the managers of the Satrix ETF's and such) charge an additional 0.57% (incl VAT)

 

Another plus is that you're able to put a debit order into it. Can you do that on the xtrackers platform?

 

EDIT: a link to the place you're quoting would be good... 

Edited February 12, 2016 by Myles Mayhew

[mtbride]

Thanks for the info, yup seems one can go debit order directly with DB X trackers

 

Quote from one of their PDF docs:

 

"How to Invest
ETFs can be bought or sold via any stockbroker, financial advisor or direct
from db x-trackers. The db x-trackers Investment Plan allows you to invest
as little as R1,000 in a once off lump sum investment or via a monthly debit
order of R300 or more."

[mtbride]

the Allan Gray platform is, IMO, fantastic. They're charging a 0.46% (incl VAT) p/a admin fee for the platform, so as far as I see it, it's as close as darnit to being free. 

 

Having said that - if you can invest through Db X trackers directly, it'd be cutting out on an additional layer of management costs, given that SANLAM (the managers of the Satrix ETF's and such) charge an additional 0.57% (incl VAT)

 

Another plus is that you're able to put a debit order into it. Can you do that on the xtrackers platform?

 

EDIT: a link to the place you're quoting would be good... 

 

www.etfsa.co.za/Factsheets/dbxworld_dec2015.pdf

[Wez-O]

All / Myles,

 

Not to take this off topic, but have you ever looked at the Orbis funds from Allan Gray that are invested in USD/Euro abroad?

Below are the three options, despite the useless Rand, would these not be a decent option?

Although goodness knows which would be the best bet in the current bearish economic climate?

Your thoughts?

 

1. Orbis Global Equity Fund (USD)

Fully invested in global equities

• The benchmark is the FTSE World Index, including income, gross of withholding taxes (“FTSE World Index”)

 

• The Fund’s currency exposure is managed relative to that of the FTSE World Index

 

2. Orbis SICAV Global Balanced Fund (USD)

A diversified global portfolio

Invests in global equities, fixed income and commodity-linked instruments

Aims to earn higher long-term returns than its benchmark, which is comprised of 60% MSCI World Index with net dividends reinvested and 40% JP Morgan Global Government Bond Index (“60/40 Index”), both in US Dollars

Can employ limited stock market hedging to reduce risk of loss

 

3. Orbis Optimal SA Fund (USD and Euro)

A hedged portfolio of selected global equities

• Invests principally in selected global equities believed to offer superior relative value

 

• Employs stock market hedging to reduce risk of loss

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

www.etfsa.co.za/Factsheets/dbxworld_dec2015.pdf

Ah. The one I was looking at, then. It'd essentially be the same as investing through AG direct, as there are also management & admin fees on that platform. Admin fee is higher than AG's, management fee is also higher. So it would be better to invest through AG on the MSCI world index feeder fund by an amount of approx 0.15% p/a or so (going on my cursory check and memory of the platform)

[jcza]

 

Warren Buffet said: When the rest are crying, I am buying...

 

 

Go for it, let us know how you get on

[mtbride]

Ah. The one I was looking at, then. It'd essentially be the same as investing through AG direct, as there are also management & admin fees on that platform. Admin fee is higher than AG's, management fee is also higher. So it would be better to invest through AG on the MSCI world index feeder fund by an amount of approx 0.15% p/a or so (going on my cursory check and memory of the platform)

 

Thanks that's some good info there!

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

All / Myles,

 

Not to take this off topic, but have you ever looked at the Orbis funds from Allan Gray that are invested in USD/Euro abroad?

Below are the three options, despite the useless Rand, would these not be a decent option?

Although goodness knows which would be the best bet in the current bearish economic climate?

Your thoughts?

 

1. Orbis Global Equity Fund (USD)

Fully invested in global equities

• The benchmark is the FTSE World Index, including income, gross of withholding taxes (“FTSE World Index”)

 

• The Fund’s currency exposure is managed relative to that of the FTSE World Index

 

2. Orbis SICAV Global Balanced Fund (USD)

A diversified global portfolio

Invests in global equities, fixed income and commodity-linked instruments

Aims to earn higher long-term returns than its benchmark, which is comprised of 60% MSCI World Index with net dividends reinvested and 40% JP Morgan Global Government Bond Index (“60/40 Index”), both in US Dollars

Can employ limited stock market hedging to reduce risk of loss

 

3. Orbis Optimal SA Fund (USD and Euro)

A hedged portfolio of selected global equities

• Invests principally in selected global equities believed to offer superior relative value

 

• Employs stock market hedging to reduce risk of loss

 

They're good options, though they have been underperforming of late as they are one of the true contrarian investment houses, and tend to look for value over the longer term. Only in the last year or so have their backings really come home to roost, and their longer term assessments are being proven right.

 

That said - you need to have a minimum of $ 10,000 to invest offshore as a lump sum, and they won't accept debit orders. So it's not an option that a lot of people have when they're starting off. 

 

I use Orbis for portions of my offshore clients' portfolios though. 

[davetapson]

Interactive Brokers for international trading.  No harder setting that up than a local one, I think the max you can send out without having to provide SARB docs is 1 bar / ann.

 

At the moment if you provision the account and then do nothing you still winning the way the ZAR is going.

 

International vs local trading is to some extent a call on the ZAR - you can make 20% here but have the currency devalue by that amount.  So, decide if it is going to go up or down, keep your money here or there.  Or sit on the fence and put 1/2 there, 1/2 here. That's what the wise man would do. Being an ex-Zim I would find the wise thing to do hard.

 

Std Bk for local.

 

I haven't looked at Rizm - but I do agree with jc - systematic / automated systems because the weakest link in the chain is you.  And that folks, is the secret of trading.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Oh - to answer which one would be best, it depends on your term. Short term = minimal volatility, longer term = higher volatility allowed. Given that the options are offshore, and therefore you're already hedging the MOST volatile segment (currency fluctuations) - it's kinda like flipping a coin. 

 

Esssentially, you need to remove the currency portion from it when you're investing offshore. As in, totally. It's very, very difficult to do (the Rand has gained more than 10% on the USD in the past 10 days alone) but it's imperative. Again, comes down to term, and how much of your portfolio you're looking to put in to each of those options. 

 

The lower the % of your portfolio going offshore, the more risky you can be. And vice versa. Generally speaking, that is. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yep, allowance is R 1m once off per person before SARB get involved (counted as Discretionary travel allowance) Otherwise it's R 10m per year per person.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Interactive Brokers for international trading.  No harder setting that up than a local one, I think the max you can send out without having to provide SARB docs is 1 bar / ann.

 

At the moment if you provision the account and then do nothing you still winning the way the ZAR is going.

 

International vs local trading is to some extent a call on the ZAR - you can make 20% here but have the currency devalue by that amount.  So, decide if it is going to go up or down, keep your money here or there.  Or sit on the fence and put 1/2 there, 1/2 here. That's what the wise man would do. Being an ex-Zim I would find the wise thing to do hard.

 

Std Bk for local.

 

I haven't looked at Rizm - but I do agree with jc - systematic / automated systems because the weakest link in the chain is you.  And that folks, is the secret of trading.

Agreed fully. And checking out international brokers this weekend. Will give a run-down next week, if fortune favours.

[davetapson]

Anyone playing on the SA Stock market, any tips in what to invest in?

 

Rule number one: Don't take tips.

Rule number two: See rule number one.

 

That said, I put a few bob into these because a. he's good, b. he's entertaining c.it's fun d. my systems are all in cash (which should be reason enough for me to follow Rule number one which I should be following anyway.)

 

Scroll back and look for 2016 portfolio. Yes, I know it's down for the year.  The entire market except for gambles on miners is down.  Whether it will still be down at the end of the year is another question.  Bottom line: no one knows.

 

https://twitter.com/SmallTalkDaily?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

 

This is not financial advice whattawhattablahblah

[Wez-O]

Myles, Dave, very interesting and thanks a lot guys. 

 

Investing is daunting yet exciting at the same time.