Skylark Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I thought anecdotal evidence was faux pas chaps, the thread scientists are rigorously embracing it though. This thread has become a battle of semantics and little else, more entertainment value than facts. Number one reason roadies or track riders go narrow must be reduced wind resistance, fair compromise seeing having your arms splayed out and your body catching the wind like a sail is going to create huge amounts of drag. Or is there another more important reason for roadies to have narrow bars?
GoLefty!! Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Road bikes get stability from speed. Mtbs need stability across a much broader speed range. The question becomes what width and at what speed.
RockCoach Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Since I have raced road bikes at a competitive level (with a 44cm wide bar) I have never ridden up a hill that was so steep that in my easiest gear, with my full weight on the pedal - plus the pulling force on the opposite crank - could not propel me up it. So not that much need for leverage although it is helpful on occasion. But on a MTB you can find yourself in a situation where you are in a very heavy gear for the given gradient (say a SS on a 25 deg incline). Where even your body weight alone cannot rotate the pedals. By pulling up on the bar you can generate more downward force on the pedals. The feeling is kinda like rowing with one hand and leg against a big resistance. You will be able to exert more downward force. The amount of extra force is dependant on your core strength in particular as you are leveraging your leg against your arm - through your torso. So the more stable the arm > torso > leg system, the more downward force on the pedal. If done correctly you will feel a big strain in your tricep and shoulder plus an even bigger push on your quad. Please bear in mind that it is very hard physically to do this and usually only possible for a handful of seconds. Really, it's just to get you up a short, steep bank where you have been caught in the wrong gear or on a single speed. I trust I don't have to draw a force diagram of the above... The mechanics of your wrist in the drops or on the hoods of a road bike (or a mtb with bar ends for that matter) where your hand is parallel with the stem allows far more leverage than for a straight mtb bar of the same width. Which is why you can run narrow road bars. However straight but wider mtb bars means you can increase leverage without the need for bar ends.
NotSoBigBen Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Been thinking long and hard about whether or not to post my experience here as I don't have the level of knowledge displayed or that 'bike feel' to notice little differences but here goes and perhaps someone can explain it? Bike 1 - Merida Big Nine carbon team size large, 720mm bar and 80mm stem Bike 2 - Bianchi Oetzi 26" HT 'converted' to 27.5 size large, 680mm bar, 80mm stem I do 90% of my riding on the Merida as it is a single speed rigid and low maintenance. I feel pretty confident on it through single track and on drop offs/technical downs such as I do, nothing death defying I am an old top and don't want to break anything. On the occasions I ride the Bianchi, with others where I don't want them waiting for me on my SSR or if I just feel like a change, I don't feel nearly as confident or as 'nimble' through the single track. On drop offs I feel like I am too 'over the front' of the bike and nervous. Over the weekend I measured the seat to bar and the Bianchi is quite a bit shorter (about 30mm) so decided to put a longer stem (110mm) on. Took it out through Rietvlei this afternoon and man what a difference, yes even I can notice that there is a major difference, I feel more in control of the bike and more confident on the downs. I have quite a few bikes but damn to make all the changes to bar and stem length would be too costly so I just ride with what they either came with or I had in the garage at the time of the build but it is clear to me that setup can make a major difference to how a bike feels. Like I said no technical analysis but hope that it makes sense?
Wyatt Earp Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Been thinking long and hard about whether or not to post my experience here as I don't have the level of knowledge displayed or that 'bike feel' to notice little differences but here goes and perhaps someone can explain it? Bike 1 - Merida Big Nine carbon team size large, 720mm bar and 80mm stem Bike 2 - Bianchi Oetzi 26" HT 'converted' to 27.5 size large, 680mm bar, 80mm stem I do 90% of my riding on the Merida as it is a single speed rigid and low maintenance. I feel pretty confident on it through single track and on drop offs/technical downs such as I do, nothing death defying I am an old top and don't want to break anything. On the occasions I ride the Bianchi, with others where I don't want them waiting for me on my SSR or if I just feel like a change, I don't feel nearly as confident or as 'nimble' through the single track. On drop offs I feel like I am too 'over the front' of the bike and nervous. Over the weekend I measured the seat to bar and the Bianchi is quite a bit shorter (about 30mm) so decided to put a longer stem (110mm) on. Took it out through Rietvlei this afternoon and man what a difference, yes even I can notice that there is a major difference, I feel more in control of the bike and more confident on the downs. I have quite a few bikes but damn to make all the changes to bar and stem length would be too costly so I just ride with what they either came with or I had in the garage at the time of the build but it is clear to me that setup can make a major difference to how a bike feels. Like I said no technical analysis but hope that it makes sense?A man with experience The rest is a load of hog wobble.I must say in this thread I have read the most rubbish I have ever read in the history of this forum .
GoLefty!! Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Been thinking long and hard about whether or not to post my experience here as I don't have the level of knowledge displayed or that 'bike feel' to notice little differences but here goes and perhaps someone can explain it? Bike 1 - Merida Big Nine carbon team size large, 720mm bar and 80mm stem Bike 2 - Bianchi Oetzi 26" HT 'converted' to 27.5 size large, 680mm bar, 80mm stem I do 90% of my riding on the Merida as it is a single speed rigid and low maintenance. I feel pretty confident on it through single track and on drop offs/technical downs such as I do, nothing death defying I am an old top and don't want to break anything. On the occasions I ride the Bianchi, with others where I don't want them waiting for me on my SSR or if I just feel like a change, I don't feel nearly as confident or as 'nimble' through the single track. On drop offs I feel like I am too 'over the front' of the bike and nervous. Over the weekend I measured the seat to bar and the Bianchi is quite a bit shorter (about 30mm) so decided to put a longer stem (110mm) on. Took it out through Rietvlei this afternoon and man what a difference, yes even I can notice that there is a major difference, I feel more in control of the bike and more confident on the downs. I have quite a few bikes but damn to make all the changes to bar and stem length would be too costly so I just ride with what they either came with or I had in the garage at the time of the build but it is clear to me that setup can make a major difference to how a bike feels. Like I said no technical analysis but hope that it makes sense? In 2005 I rode a 8 days stage on a size small Scalpel It had a 56cm top tube so I fitted a 100mm stem. The bike handled pretty quick but was stable. I rode a another bike for about a week before the event and it had a short stem long top tube. It was pretty unstable at low speed, especially on the ups. SO your experience is not unique and nothing wrong in how you handled the problem. There is no one answer to a problem as has been advocated here.
brucem76 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 So I promised some feedback. The wider bars made no noticeable difference to anything (but that flame war has been had, let's let it lie) I have managed to decrease my numb hands problem significantly by lowering my saddle to the correct height - it was way too high. Used the std 109% and 88% of inseam methods, which both put saddle in exactly the same spot. Remarkable improvement, and feeling way more in control on downhills too.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 So I promised some feedback. The wider bars made no noticeable difference to anything (but that flame war has been had, let's let it lie) I have managed to decrease my numb hands problem significantly by lowering my saddle to the correct height - it was way too high. Used the std 109% and 88% of inseam methods, which both put saddle in exactly the same spot. Remarkable improvement, and feeling way more in control on downhills too.Awesome. Glad to hear, Bruce! As an aside - how do the wider bars feel?
GoLefty!! Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 LOL still trying. " The wider bars made no noticeable difference to anything (but that flame war has been had, let's let it lie"
brucem76 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 Awesome. Glad to hear, Bruce! As an aside - how do the wider bars feel?To be honest, they didn't feel way different. Perhaps because I didn't shorten the stem. But that's not a priority right now, the lowered seat has made the difference I need
GoLefty!! Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 glad you got it sorted Bruce. Now get out there and enjoy the ride... I should warn you, the next battle you will face is bombardment from the flat pedal society...
brucem76 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 glad you got it sorted Bruce. Now get out there and enjoy the ride... I should warn you, the next battle you will face is bombardment from the flat pedal society...Flat pedals, that sounds interesting! What are the benefits? Lol - just joking!
GoLefty!! Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 You can get away from the scene of embarrassment faster
marko35s Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 glad you got it sorted Bruce. Now get out there and enjoy the ride... I should warn you, the next battle you will face is bombardment from the flat pedal society...What's the view like from up there on your high horse?
brucem76 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 What's the view like from up there on your high horse?No Marko, I lowered my seat, I didn't make it higher [emoji6]
droenn Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 glad you got it sorted Bruce. Now get out there and enjoy the ride... I should warn you, the next battle you will face is bombardment from the flat pedal society... And then bar ends and lycra wearing.
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