BuffsVintageBikes Posted October 12, 2015 Share Yebo, as long as some of the cash is going back into trail building at Jonkers I'll pay it with a smile. The new trails are going to be something special, roll on summer :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleatsnCleavage Posted October 12, 2015 Share If you WC peeps think R500 for an annual entry is bad, then I give you JHB prices: Modderfontein: R450 for 12 entries. Thaba Trails, over R1000 for an annual entry. So just shut up and pay - its cheap at the price and beautiful and you are damned lucky. Headshot, Endurrbro, Hackster and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLuvsMtb Posted October 12, 2015 Share If you WC peeps think R500 for an annual entry is bad, then I give you JHB prices: Modderfontein: R450 for 12 entries. Thaba Trails, over R1000 for an annual entry. So just shut up and pay - its cheap at the price and beautiful and you are damned lucky. No one complains about paying. We just want to make sure that some of the funds go towards the trail fund. Historically we were told that the Cape Nature accounting setup would not allow for funds to be paid in for the permits to be paid out again to the trail fund. Tokai was a case in point where fees continued to go up, and no funds were set aside for trails. The trails in Tokai were essentially privately funded and built by a small team of dedicated trail builders. In Jonkershoek Specialized got involved to start the trail fund, and events like the Origin of Trails contributed to the fund, along with individual donations. Annual fees were so low, so a few of us contributed to the trail fund in addition to our annual membership. Now with the fee increase there are additional funds going to the trail fund which can only benefit the Jonkershoek trails. I may well continue to contribute to the trail fund separately, but it is heartening to hear that a large portion of the day fee and annual fee increases are going to end up in the trail fund. (Deon), Danger Dassie, Captain Fastbastard Mayhem and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 12, 2015 Share No one complains about paying. We just want to make sure that some of the funds go towards the trail fund. Historically we were told that the Cape Nature accounting setup would not allow for funds to be paid in for the permits to be paid out again to the trail fund. Tokai was a case in point where fees continued to go up, and no funds were set aside for trails. The trails in Tokai were essentially privately funded and built by a small team of dedicated trail builders. In Jonkershoek Specialized got involved to start the trail fund, and events like the Origin of Trails contributed to the fund, along with individual donations. Annual fees were so low, so a few of us contributed to the trail fund in addition to our annual membership. Now with the fee increase there are additional funds going to the trail fund which can only benefit the Jonkershoek trails. I may well continue to contribute to the trail fund separately, but it is heartening to hear that a large portion of the day fee and annual fee increases are going to end up in the trail fund...but the cost up country does put into perspective local value. If you WC peeps think R500 for an annual entry is bad, then I give you JHB prices: Modderfontein: R450 for 12 entries. Thaba Trails, over R1000 for an annual entry. So just shut up and pay - its cheap at the price and beautiful and you are damned lucky. Why so expensive at Thaba, Modderfontein is just ludicrous.. any idea why? GLuvsMtb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mntboy Posted October 12, 2015 Share ..but the cost up country does put into perspective local value. Why so expensive at Thaba, Modderfontein is just ludicrous.. any idea why?On point 1 I think that local WC riders tend to forget how blessed we are for not only beautiful trails but also the diversity of our trails. On point 2 I can only assume that some of it goes to covering the cost of building materials but it doesn't quite make sense either. Hopefully CnC can shed more light on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosbrommer Posted October 12, 2015 Share Will also gladly pay the increased fee. Cant wait for the new trails! Planning lots of riding this summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Pizza Cat Posted October 12, 2015 Share ..but the cost up country does put into perspective local value. Why so expensive at Thaba, Modderfontein is just ludicrous.. any idea why?I might be wrong, but is Jonkershoek / MTO trails not a non-profit? Ultimately MTO makes their money from forestry, and the gate money is for conservation and the upkeep of the roads and trails. ( At present not in the past.) Trail centers like Thaba are for-profit ventures. They have to lease the land and the only return they get from the money they invest in the trails, are from MTBiking and trail running. Land in and around Johannesburg is expensive, and we pay for the privilege to ride on a property dedicated to mountainbiking. Very few of the trail centers make good money from mountainbiking. If you do not want pay trail fees, ride in the Spruit, or buy a road bike. Edited October 12, 2015 by Samurai Pizza Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 12, 2015 Share ...Trail centers like Thaba are for-profit ventures. They have to lease the land and the only return they get from the money they invest in the trails, is from MTBiking and trail running. Land in and around Johannesburg is expensive, and we pay for the privilege to ride on a property dedicated to mountainbiking. Very few of the trail centers make good money from mountainbiking. If you do not want pay trail fees, ride in the Spruit, or buy a road bike. Thanks for the info. Do you know this for a fact, Thaba being for-profit etc.. it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted October 12, 2015 Share The MTO example just shows up how poor TMNP is in comparison. They have just upped the annual permit to R510 from R460 despite the fact that the prime riding area, Tokai is out of the equation for another 14 months. More money for less access and none of that going into trail building. Sorry for beating the dead horse, but ... Samurai Pizza Cat and GLuvsMtb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 12, 2015 Share The MTO example just shows up how poor TMNP is in comparison. They have just upped the annual permit to R510 from R460 despite the fact that the prime riding area, Tokai is out of the equation for another 14 months. More money for less access and none of that going into trail building. Sorry for beating the dead horse, but .....all the more reason we are successful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Pizza Cat Posted October 12, 2015 Share Thanks for the info. Do you know this for a fact, Thaba being for-profit etc.. it makes sense. Yes, Thaba only exits because Wendell leased the land and built trails for mtb on it. If he does not make a profit on this venture, it would be pointless for him to continue. My viewpoint on this: ( You have to speak to someone like Meurant to get the official / correct version.) You get two types of "trail centers": Trails on working farms, nature reserves and forestry land. The main purpose of the property owners are either farming, forestry or conservation. The land owners either want to supplement their income by building trails, or they get approached by trail builders who ask for permission to use the land for mountain biking. The cost of building trails and the upkeep of these trails are normally recuperated by the trail fees charged to us. As the main economic activity already covers the cost of the land, we generally do not pay for the privilege of using the land. Most trails on winefarms and in nature reserves fall under this category. Sappi and Cape Pine trails are also included here. Trails on land that is dedicated to mountain biking. In these cases a private individual or company will purchase or lease a property with the principle plan of building mtb trails on the property. The main income of the business will be from trail fees and the restaurant / cafe on the property. The cost of the "land usage" gets charged to us. (Normally with a little profit.) Typical examples: PWC Bikepark, Wolwespruit and Thaba. So yes, you guys in CT and surrounds are very lucky! (Deon) and Mntboy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mntboy Posted October 12, 2015 Share Trail centers like Thaba are for-profit ventures. They have to lease the land and the only return they get from the money they invest in the trails, is from MTBiking and trail running. Land in and around Johannesburg is expensive, and we pay for the privilege to ride on a property dedicated to mountainbiking. Very few of the trail centers make good money from mountainbiking. If you do not want pay trail fees, ride in the Spruit, or buy a road bike. Ok that explains the costs a fair bit. Going out on a limb but would you be able to give an educated guesstimate as to what the percentages would be for rent, materials, labor etc? As it could be something we have to contend with in the Cape at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted October 12, 2015 Share Thanks Pizza cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Pizza Cat Posted October 12, 2015 Share Ok that explains the costs a fair bit. Going out on a limb but would you be able to give an educated guesstimate as to what the percentages would be for rent, materials, labor etc? As it could be something we have to contend with in the Cape at some point. Not a clue. You'll have to speak to the trail builders and Trail center owners. All I know is that there are lots of money in kids. PWC got so busy over weekends, they are now charging entrance fees for the non-riders. It's mayhem: probably 5 or more kiddie parties at any given moment. You also make lots of money from XC racing. Money from sponsors and entrance fees are often the difference between profit and loss. That's why they (most trail centers not all of them) could not be bothered to build any trail features ( jumps, drops and berms) here in Gauteng. The number of riders who ride these features are tiny compared to the "lycra set" who wants to race. Edited October 12, 2015 by Samurai Pizza Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted October 12, 2015 Share Not a clue. You'll have to speak to the trail builders and Trail center owners. All I know is that there are lots of money in kids. PWC got so busy over weekends, they are now charging entrance fees for the non-riders. It's mayhem: probably 5 or more kiddie parties at any given moment. You also make lots of money from XC racing. Money from sponsors and entrance fees is often the difference between profit and loss. That's why they (most trail centers not all of them) could not be bothered to build any trail features ( jumps, drops and berms) here in Gauteng. The number of riders who ride these features are tiny compared to the "lycra set" who wants to race.When they should also be working on their skills. Only way we will continue to offer riders who can excel at the top of the pile, globally speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morne101 Posted October 12, 2015 Share I paid R100 at Garden Route trail Park last week. Still 'n bargain, and anything Bennet Nell touch you know will be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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