Mntboy Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Ah. So it's an "us vs them" as well as a "use the money now" thing PPA is for all. Why can't they decide where the funds go? Why must "road money" be dedicated to road cycling?It's because we are way cooler and less stressed than they are. Afaik the PPA has more mountain bike events than road. So technically the mountain bike events should make more money for the PPA with the obvious exception of the 'Argus'. I think the answer lies in having a balance between using funds and having some savings for future use as the exco deems fit. Same goes for funds currently saved up and being generated by current racing/fun ride events. As for the PPA being for everyone, I agree, but it seems there's a belief that it's not that way and that the PPA has a mountain bike bias.
Icycling Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Ah. So it's an "us vs them" as well as a "use the money now" thing PPA is for all. Why can't they decide where the funds go? Why must "road money" be dedicated to road cycling? If we leave it to them the spend is on Unit Trust - does that serve CYCLING now? There are about 4 years in reserve is that not enough considering membership last for 1 year or less. I have not stated that the road money must be spent only on road cycling - but lets not take away from the road riders i.e. quite a few road funrides, league and then the Giro while been seen to be spending a lot more on MTB. I have stated "once road cycling is in good shape and their still funds from Cape Town cycle tour - by all means use the excess for other disciplines - rather than investment trusts." I am also not apposed to spending money on club and even a bursary type system for individuals - but surely the events must be maintained, and at least spend what was spent last year on safe cycling / stay wider of the rider?
Icycling Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 It's because we are way cooler and less stressed than they are. Afaik the PPA has more mountain bike events than road. So technically the mountain bike events should make more money for the PPA with the obvious exception of the 'Argus'. I think the answer lies in having a balance between using funds and having some savings for future use as the exco deems fit. Same goes for funds currently saved up and being generated by current racing/fun ride events. As for the PPA being for everyone, I agree, but it seems there's a belief that it's not that way and that the PPA has a mountain bike bias.Track riders / Fixie gear riders are still the coolest!!! Just saying . . .
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 If we leave it to them the spend is on Unit Trust - does that serve CYCLING now? There are about 4 years in reserve is that not enough considering membership last for 1 year or less. I have not stated that the road money must be spent only on road cycling - but lets not take away from the road riders i.e. quite a few road funrides, league and then the Giro while been seen to be spending a lot more on MTB. I have stated "once road cycling is in good shape and their still funds from Cape Town cycle tour - by all means use the excess for other disciplines - rather than investment trusts." I am also not apposed to spending money on club and even a bursary type system for individuals - but surely the events must be maintained, and at least spend what was spent last year on safe cycling / stay wider of the rider?You're still not getting the long term sustainability that comes from having an entrenched investment, and how foolhardy it would be to spend that cash, when future income is NOT guaranteed, before the investment has got to such a level that it becomes self sustaining. It's EXACTLY the same as retirement planning. If you spend all your cash now, you'll have nothing for after you stop earning.
(Deon) Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 You're still not getting the long term sustainability that comes from having an entrenched investment, and how foolhardy it would be to spend that cash, when future income is NOT guaranteed, before the investment has got to such a level that it becomes self sustaining. It's EXACTLY the same as retirement planning. If you spend all your cash now, you'll have nothing for after you stop earning.I suspect what you are missing is that if you don't spend what is needed, you are effectively saving on "maintenance". Use Eskom as example. It's business, the balance needs to be found but under no circumstance should the product be affected and this is what appears is happening if the info here is to be believed.
Icycling Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I am glad you used the example of retirement plan. I have alway stated if I needed a retirement planner the ex treasure who set up the Unit trust funds, would be one of the people I would consider using for advise. But PPA is not meant to be retiring. If it does its know when it's final death will be and that is the end of June up to the past 12 months when a member renewed its membership. Unfortunately we as humans cannot guarantee when our death will be and how long we thus need to save for retirement - thus some of us who started there retirement before the age of 21 possible will not nearly out live there saving. What about leaving a legacy for PPA assuming it ever dies - who will this be left too?
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I suspect what you are missing is that if you don't spend what is needed, you are effectively saving on "maintenance". Use Eskom as example. It's business, the balance needs to be found but under no circumstance should the product be affected and this is what appears is happening if the info here is to be believed.Very true, D. It is a fine balance. But it's also not a case of spending all the time at the expense of future potential
Thor Buttox Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 What is the mandate of PPA in terms of it's constitution? We can all sit and debate the merits of save vs spend, but the Trustees have a legal obligation to act in a certain way, otherwise they are derelict in their duties? I agree with Deon, in that in these circumstances, creating self-sustainability on a perpetuity is a fool's errand. Building PPA now by spending enough to create a bugger footprint, should result in more income down the line. Taking a bit of risk, should generate a return. Fiddling with voting procedure does seem a bit odd though. How many people arrived after?
(Deon) Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 ..If you spend all your cash now... .. not a case of spending all the time ...Correct. Earmark a % to be used as reserves, spending ALL the money as you say is not wise.. logically it should cover at the least the overheads for 1 extra year if there is doubt about the future, but then be sure to ask yourself why there is doubt in the first place. Does the customer no-longer believe in the product (no, cycling is still massively popular - but restrained) or have you changed the recipe to such an extent that your product no-longer contains the same ingredients you landed your initial success on?
raptor-22 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Your risk of litigation has increased. Swot analysis will reveal the real threats to be low turn over of exco and available roads to organise events on. Major issue being too many events shifted to Northern suburbs due to protracted road works southern suburbs. All people like Icycling see is a problem and who to blame. Beyond that they are unwilling to delve deeper into the problem. It's easier to grandstand on a forum than too deliver.
DJR Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 ....................................Major issue being too many events shifted to Northern suburbs due to protracted road works southern suburbs................................THIS! Three or 4 races were taken out of the yearly calendar because the City will not give permission for a race to go over Ou Kaapse Weg while the roadworks are closing Main Road through Kalk Bay. (I don't agree with this, but the safety and traffic honchos have decided it) The City will also NOT allow a race to go over Chapmans Peak (except the Cycle Tour once a year). They will not allow a race over Constantia neck. They will not allow and out and back ride. They will not allow a figure of 8 with a cross over point in the middle. THAT is why you now have only one shortened race in the South peninsula per year. Not the fault of the PPA. The authorities in the Northern Suburbs will also NOT allow more races in their neck of the woods for fear of pissing their own locals off even more. Yes, we DO cause disruption! Imagine having your roads blocked every weekend! Make the races further from Cape Town you say? Worcester? Bonnievale? Swellendam? N-road access, national authorities to OK it? Nightmare of note! See how many Capies will show up if the race is more than an hour from Cape Town! Not ideal. Not the PPAs fault! But keep on bleating! It will come right when the South Peninsula opens up again despite any changes in the committee. Solutions for the interim? Let me suggest something then, other than an attempted palace revolution (which seemed to have failed). Alternatively, organize more short cirquit criterium type races for the 50 odd serious racers. This is not traditionally the PPAs turf, more that of CSA and WPCA and its clubs. Here I see the PPA could perhaps help them with funding, because they obviously do not have the funds. Ask nicely, motivate well, and I'm sure some co-operation is possible. The bulk of the funriders will not show up, by the way, and it will remain something for the select few snakes!
DJR Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 P.S. I ride both road and mountain, and I just HATE this STUPID US VS THEM attitude! Grow up people!
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 P.S. I ride both road and mountain, and I just HATE this STUPID US VS THEM attitude! Grow up people!THIS.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 THIS! Three or 4 races were taken out of the yearly calendar because the City will not give permission for a race to go over Ou Kaapse Weg while the roadworks are closing Main Road through Kalk Bay. (I don't agree with this, but the safety and traffic honchos have decided it) The City will also NOT allow a race to go over Chapmans Peak (except the Cycle Tour once a year). They will not allow a race over Constantia neck. They will not allow and out and back ride. They will not allow a figure of 8 with a cross over point in the middle. THAT is why you now have only one shortened race in the South peninsula per year. Not the fault of the PPA. The authorities in the Northern Suburbs will also NOT allow more races in their neck of the woods for fear of pissing their own locals off even more. Yes, we DO cause disruption! Imagine having your roads blocked every weekend! Make the races further from Cape Town you say? Worcester? Bonnievale? Swellendam? N-road access, national authorities to OK it? Nightmare of note! See how many Capies will show up if the race is more than an hour from Cape Town! Not ideal. Not the PPAs fault! But keep on bleating! It will come right when the South Peninsula opens up again despite any changes in the committee. Solutions for the interim? Let me suggest something then, other than an attempted palace revolution (which seemed to have failed). Alternatively, organize more short cirquit criterium type races for the 50 odd serious racers. This is not traditionally the PPAs turf, more that of CSA and WPCA and its clubs. Here I see the PPA could perhaps help them with funding, because they obviously do not have the funds. Ask nicely, motivate well, and I'm sure some co-operation is possible. The bulk of the funriders will not show up, by the way, and it will remain something for the select few snakes! How DARE you bring logic to this discussion Hissy Fit!
Pure Savage Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 THIS! Three or 4 races were taken out of the yearly calendar because the City will not give permission for a race to go over Ou Kaapse Weg while the roadworks are closing Main Road through Kalk Bay. (I don't agree with this, but the safety and traffic honchos have decided it) The City will also NOT allow a race to go over Chapmans Peak (except the Cycle Tour once a year). They will not allow a race over Constantia neck. They will not allow and out and back ride. They will not allow a figure of 8 with a cross over point in the middle. THAT is why you now have only one shortened race in the South peninsula per year. Not the fault of the PPA. The authorities in the Northern Suburbs will also NOT allow more races in their neck of the woods for fear of pissing their own locals off even more. Yes, we DO cause disruption! Imagine having your roads blocked every weekend! Make the races further from Cape Town you say? Worcester? Bonnievale? Swellendam? N-road access, national authorities to OK it? Nightmare of note! See how many Capies will show up if the race is more than an hour from Cape Town! Not ideal. Not the PPAs fault! But keep on bleating! It will come right when the South Peninsula opens up again despite any changes in the committee. Solutions for the interim? Let me suggest something then, other than an attempted palace revolution (which seemed to have failed). Alternatively, organize more short cirquit criterium type races for the 50 odd serious racers. This is not traditionally the PPAs turf, more that of CSA and WPCA and its clubs. Here I see the PPA could perhaps help them with funding, because they obviously do not have the funds. Ask nicely, motivate well, and I'm sure some co-operation is possible. The bulk of the funriders will not show up, by the way, and it will remain something for the select few snakes! PPA could host rides like LBL did, 40km laps, that way you have a 40km race, a 80km race and a 120km race, same piece of road, no figure 8, no there and back etc. There are many loops around Cape Town which you can do this. The PPA should change with the times and host more of these types of events. You don't only need to do these long circular route fun rides. For a circuit fun ride, you need less road closures and less marshals. Hell, my favourite ride on the calendar, trumping the Argus, but not the DC was the Wingerd ride in Somerset West, was only 65km and after the ride they handed you a bacon and egg roll.
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