TheLegend Posted April 15, 2008 Share So my Rocky frame is old and keeps cracking but I don't wanna let go of it. It jsut got welded on the chainstays but I found another crack right wehre the seat tube is connected to the bottom bracket. The dude who did the last welding says he can't/doesn't want to weld it there cause it is too dangerous. Anyone in the Western Cape who can do tricky frame welding jobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreZA Posted April 15, 2008 Share The dude who did the last welding says he can't/doesn't want to weld it there cause it is too dangerous. Tell him to take it off his lap when he welds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted April 15, 2008 Share Have a nice burial ceremony for your frame. It is toast.Although you'll find someone who will be willing to weld your frame, you won't find someone with a temperature-regulated oven who can stress relieve the weld and heat treat the frame afterwards. Alu frames aren't just welded. They're welded and then cooked for very long periods (hours and hours) in ovens at about 310 degrees C (depending on the alloy) before they're painted. Many people will tell you they can weld it, sure they can but they cannot prevent the welds failing. Your frame was poorly heat treated in the first place, that's why it cracks all over the show. Toss it and get another one. I once took a steel frame to African Electroplaters in Industria, Jhb to have the lugs chromed. These fools then dunked my frame in the wrong chemicals or had the current reversed or something. This ate the steel away to the point where the downtube was completely eaten away in a circular fashion where they had the one electrode wire tied around it. They know how precious this frame was to me, because I told them so on numerous occasions. So rather than face the wrath of Bornman, they decided to solder it together and smear up the mess. I suspected something was afoot and arrived unannounced and caught the idiot red-handed, sitting there trying to solder my frame together. So, yes, you'll find someone who'll do the job (try African Electroplaters, they'll solder it for you), but don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegend Posted April 15, 2008 Share Have a nice burial ceremony for your frame. It is toast.Although you'll find someone who will be willing to weld your frame' date=' you won't find someone with a temperature-regulated oven who can stress relieve the weld and heat treat the frame afterwards. Alu frames aren't just welded. They're welded and then cooked for very long periods (hours and hours) in ovens at about 310 degrees C (depending on the alloy) before they're painted. Many people will tell you they can weld it, sure they can but they cannot prevent the welds failing. Your frame was poorly heat treated in the first place, that's why it cracks all over the show. [/quote'] Mr Bornman, the frame is a 12 year old Rocky Mountain frame. If you see that people say an aluminium frame lasts 3-5 years, it is more than acceptable that it cracked after 10 years of a rough life! Isn't it? Would you still say that it has been poorly heat treated?It cracked again and now there is a little tear starting to develop. From the location of the crack I would assume that it has nothing to do with the two other cracks but rahter the beatings it took and the heavy and powerful (of course) rider! Toss it and get another one. Not only because of financial reasons but also because I hang on to that frame I won't simply "toss" it away. Even if it is irrepearbale damaged I will never "toss" it.What a nasty comment! TheLegend2008-04-15 10:41:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windbreaker Posted April 15, 2008 Share 12 year old piece of junk - toss it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegend Posted April 15, 2008 Share haha, you dude have no idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted April 16, 2008 Share the frame is a 12 year old Rocky Mountain frame. If you see that people say an aluminium frame lasts 3-5 years' date=' it is more than acceptable that it cracked after 10 years of a rough life! Isn't it? Would you still say that it has been poorly heat treated?[/quote'] Ja, and my aunt Daisy has a 45-year old frame in her garage without any cracks. It just proves that steel lasts forever.....if you don't ride it, that is. Point is, age of frames, chains and the like cannot be measured in years but in miles or better, fatigue cycles. You don't say how much you've ridden it. No matter my insensitive comments, the frame is:Taking a Dirt nap Pushing up the daisies Passed...(over, on, away, etc) Deceased Ex- Stone dead Demised Ceased to be No more Expired Gone to meet its maker Stiff Bereft of life Resting in peace Off the twig Kicked the bucket Shuffled off the mortal coil Run down the curtain Joined the choir invisible That good night In a better place Six feet underCrossed overCrossed the barCrossed the River Styx Wandering the Elysian Fields Paid Charon's fare Sleeping with the fishesBought the farm asleep belly up bloodless buried cadaverous checked out cold cut off defunct departed done for erased extinct gone inanimate late lifeless liquidated mortified offed perished in repose rubbed out snuffed out wasted lost be taken bump off buy it cashed in (or out) checked out conkedcroakedDanced the last dance finished Gone into the west Kicked off Got a one-way ticket Popped off Snuffed Sprouted wings Succumbed No longer with usDirt Ashes to ashes, dust to dust ) Return to the ground In Hell (or Heaven) With the ancestors Gathered to his people Give up the ghost In the grave Executed Wacked Terminated Put down "going to the big race track in the skyDestroyed, As in "to destroy dogsWorm food Fragged Buy a pine condo Go into the fertilizer businessBecome living-challenged T.U./Toes up/tits up/tango uniform Not only because of financial reasons but also because I hang on to that frame I won't simply "toss" it away. Even if it is irrepearbale damaged I will never "toss" it.What a nasty comment! Sorry if I was insensitive to the deceased frame. I suggest you embalm it, frame it and hang it above your fireplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old school Posted April 16, 2008 Share Hahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegend Posted April 16, 2008 Share Ja' date=' and my aunt Daisy has a 45-year old frame in her garage without any cracks. It just proves that steel lasts forever.....if you don't ride it, that is.[/quote'] which is why I will get a custom made steel frame MTB from german's next year - yeah baby!! but you didn't comment on your claim that it was badly heat treated again! Point is' date=' age of frames, chains and the like cannot be measured in years but in miles or better, fatigue cycles. You don't say how much you've ridden it.[/quote'] quite a lot actually. I also rode it with a rigid fork the past two years and used it for cycle messenger work for about 14 months. there, besides the heavy oke on it you additionally have the sometimes heay delivery on your back.that's as accurate as I can be. No matter my insensitive comments' date=' the frame is:Taking a Dirt nap Pushing up the daisies Passed...(over, on, away, etc) Deceased Ex- Stone dead Demised Ceased to be No more Expired (well, it expired a couple of years ago) Gone to meet its maker Stiff Bereft of life Resting in peace Off the twig Kicked the bucket Shuffled off the mortal coil Run down the curtain Joined the choir invisible That good night In a better place Six feet underCrossed overCrossed the barCrossed the River Styx Wandering the Elysian Fields Paid Charon's fare Sleeping with the fishesBought the farm asleep belly up bloodless buried cadaverous checked out cold cut off defunct departed done for erased extinct gone inanimate late lifeless liquidated mortified offed perished in repose rubbed out snuffed out wasted lost be taken bump off buy it cashed in (or out) checked out conkedcroakedDanced the last dance finished Gone into the west Kicked off Got a one-way ticket Popped off Snuffed Sprouted wings Succumbed No longer with usDirt Ashes to ashes, dust to dust ) Return to the ground In Hell (or Heaven) With the ancestors Gathered to his people Give up the ghost In the grave Executed Wacked Terminated Put down "going to the big race track in the skyDestroyed, As in "to destroy dogsWorm food Fragged Buy a pine condo Go into the fertilizer businessBecome living-challenged T.U./Toes up/tits up/tango uniform [/quote'] Sorry if I was insensitive to the deceased frame. I suggest you embalm it, frame it and hang it above your fireplace. it will be cleaned, no, it won't, it'll just be hung over my bed as it is and the mirror has to go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted April 16, 2008 Share but you didn't comment on your claim that it was badly heat treated again! I'm not sure what you want me to say. A well-designed, well-engineered, well-manufactured frame intended as a general purpose bike should last very, very long. Longer than what you describe. Yours failed and therefore there was a fault in one of the criteria above. Yes, failures do occur. On alu bikes it isn't likely that the welder botched the job - you'll immediately notice a bad weld, and besides, robots do it to absolute perfection. The problem comes with heat treatment. It is something you cannot see but there's lots of evidence of it. Your bike failed in the same mode at several places. The only reason other than heat treatment could be poor tube stock or inappropriate material. If your bike is made from 6000 series aluminium, it isn't stock, but treatment. Based on your evidence, I voted for the treatment. Failures on steel bikes are usually attributed to the framebuilderovercooking the joint when he brazed it. The only design faults I've seen on steel bikes is with unicrown forks of the type made popular by Pinarello in the 1980s and 90s. This was due to a badly designed lug that was sold to the likes of Pinaello by Cinelli. A good lug has long steel fingers that feather the transition from fork to lug whereas these were smooth to create that unicrown look. This meant that there was an abrupt joint on the inside of the fork that caused stress risers and eventually broke off, with catastrophic results. Your frame has flatlined. Phone AVBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclenut Posted April 16, 2008 Share Legend: Try Produx, they used to build Alu bikes Donald Williamson021 556 1884cyclenut2008-04-16 04:30:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegend Posted April 16, 2008 Share Legend: Try Produx' date=' they used to build Alu bikes Donald Williamson021 556 1884[/quote'] thanx, someone else already pm'ed me and I emailed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted April 16, 2008 Share Alluminium can infact be welded. I had a De Rosa frame wich cracked were the BB and the seatstay meet. It crack right around the seattube, so much that it could be moved sideways. Had it welded by a friend..without any special treatment. That were 4 years ago and the bike is still in daily use without problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2S2 Posted April 16, 2008 Share I side with JB on this one. If you are sentimental, put the old frame in a picture frame and hang it on a wall! Sure you can weld it, but do so only if you don't value your own physical wellbeing. Bikes are typically made from 6000 or 7000 series aluminium, that has to be heat treated after any work has been done on it. Both welding and bending hardens the material making it brittle, and the only way to reverse this is to perform heat treatment on it. Incidentally, just riding the aluminium frame causes work hardening, and fatigue, which is why it is generally agreed that these frames have a finite lifespan, depending on how much abuse you throw at them of course! Case in point: Had a very nice custom built Principia frame a few years ago, which got dented in a crash. Against the advice of everyone in the know, the insurance guys on the advice of the bike shop decided that the frame could be repaired. Looked nice enough when I first got it back, but didn't last a year before the cracks started showing again. Very hard lesson to the insurance guys, as the initial repairs not only cost them a fortune, but also nullified any waranties, leading them to a very expensive replacement excercise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranswurm Posted April 16, 2008 Share Your frame has flatlined. Phone AVBOB Alles Vrek Behalwe Ons Besigheid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegend Posted April 16, 2008 Share Mud Dee, of course it can be welded, the question is only ow long it will last. It is correc tthat if you don't treat it properly the frame weakens, especially in the close vincinity of the new welding. (which I am sure you are aware of yourself) Nevertheless my frame had also been welded by some dude and lasted 1,5 years, 1 year with a rigid fork in it. It broke again right through the welding and not on it's side. but now it is thoroughly welded and a bit of aluminium added - if it breaks ther again I will eat my deralieur! If the crack on the BB extends I will get it welded again and ride it further. Only I need someone willing to do this job. R2S2's comment about the physical wellbeing is of course valid, but all my frame braking has been painless so far and here I am aware of not pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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