New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[davetapson]

This is one of the bigger downsides of renting, the place gets pulled out from under you.

 

Has happened to us to and it sucks.

 

Should we all start a weird gloriavale style community together? Only religion allowed is bikes.

Sounds like Jatniel.

 

We're considering it. Had a beer or possibly two with another saffa dad from the kids school and we discussed buying a section and building two or three houses on it - one each for us, third to sell to go towards the cost of the thing.

 

Only problem is financing rental and build at the same time.  

 

If you do what you were planning to do, it's only deposit down and then rest at completion, normally.

 

We should probably do something like that.

[Wayne Potgieter]

Sounds like Jatniel.

 

We're considering it. Had a beer or possibly two with another saffa dad from the kids school and we discussed buying a section and building two or three houses on it - one each for us, third to sell to go towards the cost of the thing.

 

Only problem is financing rental and build at the same time.  

 

If you do what you were planning to do, it's only deposit down and then rest at completion, normally.

 

We should probably do something like that.

Correct.

 

Most land and build is 10% down, balance on Certificate of Completion.

 

If you buy your own land, you start paying the mortgage on the land immediately, then you appoint a builder and there are normally 6 progress payments during the build. So you need to have the residual cash through the month to increase those costs. 

 

In your scenario, it would make sense to buy the land. Then the two of you collectively share the 6 increasing payments on the 3rd property to sell and realise the profit. Then that can be used to help soften the blow, but that is still big money and very time consuming. It can take ages to get all the consents etc.

 

I still believe land and build is the best way.

 

My idea was always to buy our primary residence land and build. Hopefully it appreciates once built quite quickly and there is equity in the house and we leverage that equity to buy a smaller land and build for investment and to keep doing that until there are 3 houses. one main one and two little rentals.

 

Subsidise the rentals and settle them in a 15 year max window and then gift them to the kids on the following conditions:

 

1. You cannot sell the house without our approval.

2. Any rental income is your or you choose to live in it.

3. Costs associated are your problem.

 

I think that would be a pretty good start to their adult lives, but it all hinges on the properties growing and there is some uncertainty there.

[davetapson]

Correct.

 

Most land and build is 10% down, balance on Certificate of Completion.

 

If you buy your own land, you start paying the mortgage on the land immediately, then you appoint a builder and there are normally 6 progress payments during the build. So you need to have the residual cash through the month to increase those costs. 

 

In your scenario, it would make sense to buy the land. Then the two of you collectively share the 6 increasing payments on the 3rd property to sell and realise the profit. Then that can be used to help soften the blow, but that is still big money and very time consuming. It can take ages to get all the consents etc.

 

I still believe land and build is the best way.

 

My idea was always to buy our primary residence land and build. Hopefully it appreciates once built quite quickly and there is equity in the house and we leverage that equity to buy a smaller land and build for investment and to keep doing that until there are 3 houses. one main one and two little rentals.

 

Subsidise the rentals and settle them in a 15 year max window and then gift them to the kids on the following conditions:

 

1. You cannot sell the house without our approval.

2. Any rental income is your or you choose to live in it.

3. Costs associated are your problem.

 

I think that would be a pretty good start to their adult lives, but it all hinges on the properties growing and there is some uncertainty there.

Yep, spot on.

 

My boet lived in Aus for a fair while, and his observation of his Aus mates (pretty much all in academia) who were wealthy and those that were not was that the wealthy ones tended to have been given a house or a good chunk of deposit for one by their parents, and hence had that disposable income to do other things than pay the bank.

 

It's a hell of an advantage you can give your kids if you can swing it.

[Spurs]

Thanks for all the responses!

 

My question is really geared towards what I should be asking for as a salary for a like for like switch between the 2 countries, trying to equip myself to ensure I don't sell myself short.  Although I would take a cut (relative) if it meant I could secure the move sooner rather than later.  I am a senior in the IT systems engineering space, and my current expectation was an increase of 20%, but based on above perhaps it should be more.

 

I understand that there are many factors to consider, however at the end of the day my motivation for the question was to set myself a target for negotiations.

[davetapson]

Oh, ok.

 

Here you go...

 

https://www.roberthalf.co.nz/research-insights/salary-guide

[davetapson]

Just been at another auction for a real fixer-upperer in Torbay.  Nice property, the house essentially unlivable.

Chatted to agent before, who did fixer-uppering, and he reckoned buyer interest (mainly developers) was 800's, he reckoned he'd maybe go to 950k if it was him, fix it up for 150k and have probably 1.2M value once done.

Went for $1.114M.

Property market at the moment is astonishing. Hard to know if it's a bubble or the new normal.

House didn't even have a staircase between bottom and top floors.  Had a spiral staircase like you might find in a submarine, but probably smaller.

[hayleyearth]

Talking about disposable income and drive your boat to work day, I saw one of these rock out of the sea at Takapuna, and head off up the road.

 

I need one.

About 2 months ago this company was looking for a new engineer/manager. I told my partner to apply (he is boat crazy), but then he just said "it's got a motor"....(he is sailboat crazy).

 

Many of those around where I stayb and yes the owners drive them from home to the boat ramp.

[hayleyearth]

Thanks for all the responses!

 

My question is really geared towards what I should be asking for as a salary for a like for like switch between the 2 countries, trying to equip myself to ensure I don't sell myself short. Although I would take a cut (relative) if it meant I could secure the move sooner rather than later. I am a senior in the IT systems engineering space, and my current expectation was an increase of 20%, but based on above perhaps it should be more.

 

I understand that there are many factors to consider, however at the end of the day my motivation for the question was to set myself a target for negotiations.

Senior in IT ++$120k (plus benefits)!

At least.

[patches]

Thanks for all the responses!

 

My question is really geared towards what I should be asking for as a salary for a like for like switch between the 2 countries, trying to equip myself to ensure I don't sell myself short.  Although I would take a cut (relative) if it meant I could secure the move sooner rather than later.  I am a senior in the IT systems engineering space, and my current expectation was an increase of 20%, but based on above perhaps it should be more.

 

I understand that there are many factors to consider, however at the end of the day my motivation for the question was to set myself a target for negotiations.

 

The big corporate employers work like this.

 

Often they won't hire foreign talent for the same salary packages as the local equivalents. Many Saffers (including myself) get sold short when they first move over.

 

BUT it's not the worst thing in the world, and here's my reasoning behind it:

 

1. The employer is taking a chance on you. You live on the other side of the world. In many cases the only "meeting" is a skype interview. You likely have no NZ work experience and will often require some sort of visa sponsorship and relocation package.
2. It's a foot in the door. Getting here is the biggest hurdle. Work hard and moving up the ladder is not that hard. Employers will soon realise that although they took a chance on you and paid you below market salary, they will need to rectify that in order to keep you. I moved over for a liveable, but very modest package. However incremental increases every 3-6 months had me at 1.5x my initial salary, within 18months. Employers know you have to pay to keep good staff, which leads into the next point... 
3. People chop-and-change jobs in NZ like all the time. As Saffers we are so used to the mentality of clinging to a job for dear life, and also being so grateful the our employers, like they're doing us the biggest favour. Here (in many professional sectors) it's open season on head-hunting. I was headhunted after 2yrs in NZ (more than doubling my original NZ salary). A little bit of work experience in NZ does wonders. And even if one's visa is tied to their accredited employer, another accredited employer is often willing to buy that person out of their bond to the original employer, just to get good employees. My brother-in-law has just done this. Moved over as an eDiscovery expert for one of the big 4 (in Feb this year). Within 8 months of immigrating, another employer head-hunted him, offered more pay, better role, and paid the original employer the $18k odd worth of visa & relocation costs they had bonded against him. At first he felt terrible for leaving the employer that gave him a chance. But I told him that it just works different here. It's a small market. People move all the time. And bridges aren't burnt that easily. I know a number of consulting engineers that have done the rounds and ended up back at a previous employer.

So yeah, if you get the chance to move and the job pays a liveable package (even though it doesn't allow one to have the luxuries they're accustomed to in SA), I'd still recommend making the leap.I'd rather be here and have more ladder to climb, than be stuck on an upper rung in SA.

 

In SA, I had a fairly decent job with a great company. But my progression was slow and limited. I look at where I am now (about 4.5 years later), and that change in tack from SA to NZ, although initially backwards, has opened up doors that didn't even exist back there.

[Wayne Potgieter]

The big corporate employers work like this.

 

Often they won't hire foreign talent for the same salary packages as the local equivalents. Many Saffers (including myself) get sold short when they first move over.

 

BUT it's not the worst thing in the world, and here's my reasoning behind it:

 

1. The employer is taking a chance on you. You live on the other side of the world. In many cases the only "meeting" is a skype interview. You likely have no NZ work experience and will often require some sort of visa sponsorship and relocation package.
2. It's a foot in the door. Getting here is the biggest hurdle. Work hard and moving up the ladder is not that hard. Employers will soon realise that although they took a chance on you and paid you below market salary, they will need to rectify that in order to keep you. I moved over for a liveable, but very modest package. However incremental increases every 3-6 months had me at 1.5x my initial salary, within 18months. Employers know you have to pay to keep good staff, which leads into the next point... 
3. People chop-and-change jobs in NZ like all the time. As Saffers we are so used to the mentality of clinging to a job for dear life, and also being so grateful the our employers, like they're doing us the biggest favour. Here (in many professional sectors) it's open season on head-hunting. I was headhunted after 2yrs in NZ (more than doubling my original NZ salary). A little bit of work experience in NZ does wonders. And even if one's visa is tied to their accredited employer, another accredited employer is often willing to buy that person out of their bond to the original employer, just to get good employees. My brother-in-law has just done this. Moved over as an eDiscovery expert for one of the big 4 (in Feb this year). Within 8 months of immigrating, another employer head-hunted him, offered more pay, better role, and paid the original employer the $18k odd worth of visa & relocation costs they had bonded against him. At first he felt terrible for leaving the employer that gave him a chance. But I told him that it just works different here. It's a small market. People move all the time. And bridges aren't burnt that easily. I know a number of consulting engineers that have done the rounds and ended up back at a previous employer.

So yeah, if you get the chance to move and the job pays a liveable package (even though it doesn't allow one to have the luxuries they're accustomed to in SA), I'd still recommend making the leap.I'd rather be here and have more ladder to climb, than be stuck on an upper rung in SA.

 

In SA, I had a fairly decent job with a great company. But my progression was slow and limited. I look at where I am now (about 4.5 years later), and that change in tack from SA to NZ, although initially backwards, has opened up doors that didn't even exist back there.

Nicely said.

 

Sometimes you gotta take one or two steps backwards so you can get a running jump forwards.

[GrahamS2]

Gah - we've just had notice that our rental house is for sale - tenancy is until Feb, but looking for a house in Feb is chronic. 

 

This we know because our previous house was sold out from under us in Feb.

 

Second time it's happened.

 

I suspect they are looking for the FOMO prices going around at the moment, and I also suspect it will be way out of our price range to buy.

 

The exact reason why we've just bought. That, and the market is back on the rise here in a big way

[Spurs]

The big corporate employers work like this.

 

Often they won't hire foreign talent for the same salary packages as the local equivalents. Many Saffers (including myself) get sold short when they first move over.

 

BUT it's not the worst thing in the world, and here's my reasoning behind it:

 

1. The employer is taking a chance on you. You live on the other side of the world. In many cases the only "meeting" is a skype interview. You likely have no NZ work experience and will often require some sort of visa sponsorship and relocation package.
2. It's a foot in the door. Getting here is the biggest hurdle. Work hard and moving up the ladder is not that hard. Employers will soon realise that although they took a chance on you and paid you below market salary, they will need to rectify that in order to keep you. I moved over for a liveable, but very modest package. However incremental increases every 3-6 months had me at 1.5x my initial salary, within 18months. Employers know you have to pay to keep good staff, which leads into the next point... 
3. People chop-and-change jobs in NZ like all the time. As Saffers we are so used to the mentality of clinging to a job for dear life, and also being so grateful the our employers, like they're doing us the biggest favour. Here (in many professional sectors) it's open season on head-hunting. I was headhunted after 2yrs in NZ (more than doubling my original NZ salary). A little bit of work experience in NZ does wonders. And even if one's visa is tied to their accredited employer, another accredited employer is often willing to buy that person out of their bond to the original employer, just to get good employees. My brother-in-law has just done this. Moved over as an eDiscovery expert for one of the big 4 (in Feb this year). Within 8 months of immigrating, another employer head-hunted him, offered more pay, better role, and paid the original employer the $18k odd worth of visa & relocation costs they had bonded against him. At first he felt terrible for leaving the employer that gave him a chance. But I told him that it just works different here. It's a small market. People move all the time. And bridges aren't burnt that easily. I know a number of consulting engineers that have done the rounds and ended up back at a previous employer.

So yeah, if you get the chance to move and the job pays a liveable package (even though it doesn't allow one to have the luxuries they're accustomed to in SA), I'd still recommend making the leap.I'd rather be here and have more ladder to climb, than be stuck on an upper rung in SA.

 

In SA, I had a fairly decent job with a great company. But my progression was slow and limited. I look at where I am now (about 4.5 years later), and that change in tack from SA to NZ, although initially backwards, has opened up doors that didn't even exist back there.

 

Great response and I really appreciate the insights, it helps a lot.  The job is with one of the big 4, and I have a figure in mind which I believe is fair, although well below the 1.5X amount.  I think I will stick with that, however see if I can get commitment for a review 3-6 months after arrival.

[patham]

The exact reason why we've just bought. That, and the market is back on the rise here in a big way

 

Congrats on taking the plunge. Whereabouts did you buy ? 

[davetapson]

Great response and I really appreciate the insights, it helps a lot.  The job is with one of the big 4, and I have a figure in mind which I believe is fair, although well below the 1.5X amount.  I think I will stick with that, however see if I can get commitment for a review 3-6 months after arrival.

 

In my initial interviews I just asked what the salary range was for the role and said that I'd take mid point - or that I'd take mid-point for the salary range for the role if they were being cagey. 

 

You can say that you don't have an informed decision yet as to what you are worth in the NZ market, which as you haven't worked here before, is valid. 

I also found that the salary lists where optimistic - you'll find out soon enough with a couple of interviews what the current going rates are.

 

When you get a job, soon enough you and they will find out if you fit in with them and things will adjust accordingly, and if not, you stay a year and then look around...

Edited October 12, 2020 by davetapson

[GrahamS2]

Congrats on taking the plunge. Whereabouts did you buy ? 

Around the corner from you

[patham]

Around the corner from you

 

There goes the neighbourhood!

 

I'll bring a beer on moving day. Luckily I now have a lifetime exemption of having to actually assist in helping to move people.

 

PS. Bring snake repellent (this is not normally a statement you find on a NZ themed thread). I gather the local facebook pages are full of snake sightings and removals lately. We had our first carpet python of the season cruising across the driveway a few nights ago.