SwissVan Posted November 23, 2015 Share As far as I understand the Henley hop, it involves significant lateral movement of the bike under combined load of the extending leg, and upper body. This will be impossible to replicate on an IDT, as it is stable and doesn't allow lateral movement of the bike. I think irrespective of the exact technique, cardiac load would change, as per TALUS, perhaps making heart rate a less than ideal measure Good point about the hop and IDT's, when i did my little test i could feel the "clamped" bike was restricting movement, which could also explain the lower HR recorded due to less lateral movement. Instead of focusing on HR as we have been up to now, my suggestion would be to try evaluate the actual physical effect by doing brick sessions (cycle followed by an immediate run) where the participants (preferably triathletes / duathletes) compare the effects of standing on the bike and then running to the usual routine of sitting on the bike and then running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted November 23, 2015 Share Noted......but please we need more of your incredible knowledge and input....... Nice one, hope you feel better and have a wonderful week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarHugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Good point about the hop and IDT's, when i did my little test i could feel the "clamped" bike was restricting movement, which could also explain the lower HR recorded due to less lateral movement. Instead of focusing on HR as we have been up to now, my suggestion would be to try evaluate the actual physical effect by doing brick sessions (cycle followed by an immediate run) where the participants (preferably triathletes / duathletes) compare the effects of standing on the bike and then running to the usual routine of sitting on the bike and then running.Sitting will be the most effective tool for the triathlete.......that is why the saddle height and fore/aft is so different to that of a standard roadbike......to save the quads for the run . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted November 23, 2015 Share BH - Keep in mind the OP's post is related to Climbing technique to spare the upper leg muscles I need (meaningful) comments on my theory please:· If done correctly, the stand-up position of hill climbing (very slow cadence) can be more energy-efficient than when seated and spinning at high cadence· Use mostly calves and triceps muscles, thus saving the quads and ham strings · Principle of elevating body weight against gravity (with minimal use of upper legs) then transferring this gain in potential energy into kinetic energy· In the standing position, when the right foot is at the bottom (6 o’clock) you push up with the right calve and simultaneously help with both arms to bounce the whole body up against gravity· Moments later you straighten the right knee asap · You recover the potential energy in the form of rotational kinetic energy with the (straight) right leg from the 2 to 6 o’clock down stroke Any links on the Internet exploring this and other optimal advanced techniques for hill climbing?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarHugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share BH - Keep in mind the OP's post is related to Climbing technique to spare the upper leg muscles Correct......reading posts properly won't cause any harm either....you dragged the tri/bi-athletes in to the mix......to spare the upper leg muscles...especially for the run you won't find many a tri-athlete standing and powering up the climbs......your obsession is beginning to make me a little nervous...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted November 23, 2015 Share Correct......reading posts properly won't cause any harm either....you dragged the tri/bi-athletes in to the mix......to spare the upper leg muscles...especially for the run you won't find many a tri-athlete standing and powering up the climbs......your obsession is beginning to make me a little nervous...... I'm interested in helping the OP with his theory where i can.... and believe that he comes from a Tri / Du background, hence the reference to tri / du athletes and testing the theory using tri specific routines because imo comparing HR may not accurately reflect the physical effects. Quoting well known facts about tri bike set up had very little to do with the Henleys theory and question on climbing... If you think my politely pointing that out is obsessive.... then ill suggest something that will help save you further concerns: F O and go find the ignore button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarHugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share I'm interested in helping the OP with his theory where i can.... and believe that he comes from a Tri / Du background, hence the reference to tri / du athletes and testing the theory using tri specific routines because imo comparing HR may not accurately reflect the physical effects. Quoting well known facts about tri bike set up had very little to do with the Henleys theory and question on climbing... If you think my politely pointing that out is obsessive.... then ill suggest something that will help save you further concerns: F O and go find the ignore button.I never quoted anything......I gave an opinion.....on an issue you raised....as for this bit you highlighted: · If done correctly, the stand-up position of hill climbing (very slow cadence) can be more energy-efficient than when seated and spinning at high cadence ......did we not dispel that myth throughout the thread already ? What is the F O in your post........?Now that I have a very keen interest in........ Come one Swiss....play the ball a bit more often.....fishing with dynamite never yields great results...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeonabike Posted November 23, 2015 Share Agnee man.....Barhugger and Swiss. You two are being anal now. Kiss and makeup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted November 23, 2015 Share Agnee man.....Barhugger and Swiss. You two are being anal now. Kiss and makeup Pics or it didnt happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni Posted November 23, 2015 Share You beat me to it Bob. And they say hell has no fury as a woman scorned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarHugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Agnee man.....Barhugger and Swiss. You two are being anal now. Kiss and makeup Sorry BOB No kissing or making up to do here.....I am sticking to the thread.....trying to give the OP many options to meander over...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notmyname Posted November 23, 2015 Share Agnee man.....Barhugger and Swiss. You two are being anal now. Kiss and makeup I've been following this thread since day one and I must say the personal vendetta between the too has become somewhat mundane. Come on chaps, let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarHugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share I've been following this thread since day one and I must say the personal vendetta between the too has become somewhat mundane. Come on chaps, let it go.No hard feeling on my side Small Fry.....it all happened when I mentioned he who shall not be mentioned....seems he is still that Achilles heel for Swiss....people can't really expect me or anyone else to simply agree upon theories when we really don't...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted November 23, 2015 Share When I started riding I was coached by a triathlete, the Horners. They were very clear about staying seated on climbs to build hip strength. I would never stand and struggled when I did. Once I rode a lot more and changed coaches, and practiced standing more, a switch happened. I dont climb standing for any other reason than to take a "break", the HR does go up a bit at the same power, but it just feels like the hard working muscles get a bit of a break. So towards the end of a long climb or hard effort, I find myself climbing seated for 60seconds then standing for 30seconds, and alternate between the two.I also found it handy to stand and climb when riding casually with riders who run compacts, as staying seated and riding at 60rpm isnt lekker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarHugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share When I started riding I was coached by a triathlete, the Horners. They were very clear about staying seated on climbs to build hip strength. I would never stand and struggled when I did. Once I rode a lot more and changed coaches, and practiced standing more, a switch happened. I dont climb standing for any other reason than to take a "break", the HR does go up a bit at the same power, but it just feels like the hard working muscles get a bit of a break. So towards the end of a long climb or hard effort, I find myself climbing seated for 60seconds then standing for 30seconds, and alternate between the two.I also found it handy to stand and climb when riding casually with riders who run compacts, as staying seated and riding at 60rpm isnt lekker.And in a nutshell exactly what many of us have been saying......so would it be fair to say that Henley's theory is a bit flawed at this stage or must we all agree to simply keep the peace ?Perhaps.......Henley should never have implied that we are.......stupid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notmyname Posted November 23, 2015 Share I would never get out the saddle when I was rolling with a zillion gears. When I made the change to 1x10 I found I was burning myself out staying seated. I now stand intermittently on the more hectic climbs. Not sure if it's a mental thing but I seem to benefit. My time Climbing breedts pretty much the same but I don't feel like I'm bleeding from everywhere when cresting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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