Matchstix Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Skip a remote, not going to be worth while
Skinnyone Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 also energy cannot be lost, you "bob" down and the fork/shock "bobs" you back up....thus a transfer of energy not a loss... Gary Fisher told me once that the human body is the most intelligent suspension system around BUT the most energy consuming - if you let the suspension do the work for you (and not your legs and your arms) then you are not burning calories that can be used to pedal forward... Exactly how much energy do you "loose" to suspension"bob" anyway?
Robrider Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 also energy cannot be lost, you "bob" down and the fork/shock "bobs" you back up....thus a transfer of energy not a loss... Gary Fisher told me once that the human body is the most intelligent suspension system around BUT the most energy consuming - if you let the suspension do the work for you (and not your legs and your arms) then you are not burning calories that can be used to pedal forward... Exactly how much energy do you "loose" to suspension"bob" anyway? I agree with you regarding the lockout, but I had to say something about energy loss. A the job of the damper in a suspension system is to dissipate energy. Energy gets converted into the motion of the oil pushing through holes. Ultimately the system will heat up, albeit not noticeably. So yes, suspension does remove energy. On a practical level though, I do agree that your body absorbing all the "hits" consumes energy too, and depending on the terrain, lock out may be worth it or not.
raptor-22 Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Its insane how much traction you lose with it on - and you use more energy trying to keep your bike on the right line... Then you using it at the wrong time
Scott2luvit Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Its insane how much traction you lose with it on - and you use more energy trying to keep your bike on the right line...climbing?
Skinnyone Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Extract from a study done CONCLUSIONS The findings of this study indicate that there is a substantially greater physiological cost during sub-maximal exercise under the test conditions when riding the HT bicycle compared to the SU bicycle. In addition, the riders perceive the effort to be greater on the HT and the comfort less. Thus, the HT bicycle both requires a greater physiological cost and is more stressful mentally to ride than the SU bicycle. For the no bumps tests, V was found to be slightly lower for the HT. These differences have been demonstrated during sub-maximal exercise with severe and frequent bumps on level ground. Further tests will be required to determine the effects under maximal exercise conditions and to quantify the effect of bump size and spacing so that the results can be related to more realistic race conditions. LINK : http://vmdev1.eprints.org/5239/1/PaperSP03041.pdf
rudi-h Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 fork lockout is over-played IMO. You really need to be chasing seconds on a long race to get the benefit out of this. If you really want an extra button on your handlebar, get a dropper post, that's a way more useful button to push!
raptor-22 Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 lock out weighs nothingdropper weighs more than you can drop in a single sitting
rudi-h Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 lock out weighs nothingdropper weighs more than you can drop in a single sitting maybe weighs a few grams, but saves you minutes on the downhills and gets you down safely (with a huge smile) at the same time... i don't have proof, but i'd put money on it that a dropper makes the average joe faster on a typical MTN or equivalent marathon race, more so than a remote lock-out.
NotSoBigBen Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 very very very rarely use any lockouts .... I forget having locked it out and by the time I'm back into something technical where it's needed I'm so far in I can't unlock it without losing teeth ......
raptor-22 Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 you mean its faster if and if you fast enough n descents for it too actually make a dfference (and i'm not talking about posing to look fast).GMBN did a comparison that came out pretty much in favour of ride what you like dropper or no dropper. You adapt either way. Chances the kind of race where a lock out is an advantage a dropper post wont be anything other than a mechanical gremlin and added weight
mtbride Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 you mean its faster if and if you fast enough n descents for it too actually make a dfference (and i'm not talking about posing to look fast).GMBN did a comparison that came out pretty much in favour of ride what you like dropper or no dropper. You adapt either way. Chances the kind of race where a lock out is an advantage a dropper post wont be anything other than a mechanical gremlin and added weight Yup I don't see Nino and the like ride droppers in XCO races ... and there are quite technical drops from what I've seen. And that's on 100mm HT bikes. But if someone gave me a dropper I would be very happy and would certainly use it! I only ever lock out the front when on a tar climb, if I remember, and only when I need to stand and pedal ...
raptor-22 Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Yup I don't see Nino and the like ride droppers in XCO races ... and there are quite technical drops from what I've seen. And that's on 100mm HT bikes. But if someone gave me a dropper I would be very happy and would certainly use it! I only ever lock out the front when on a tar climb, if I remember, and only when I need to stand and pedal ... Toyed with the idea till I saw how many were in my LBS for service after not many hours.I bearly have time to maintain the bikes I own, fitting a dropper post into that maintenance schedules just isn't going to happen till I get a trail bike where the added weight is a potential energy advantage
mtbride Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Toyed with the idea till I saw how many were in my LBS for service after not many hours.I bearly have time to maintain the bikes I own, fitting a dropper post into that maintenance schedules just isn't going to happen till I get a trail bike where the added weight is a potential energy advantage Ja, a duallie has enough maintenance already haha.
Jewbacca Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 racing XCO at a competitive (ish) level is very different. A remote lock out is wonderful when you are switching from technical descents to punchy climbs at speed. All you guys are spouting is user preference and own experience in relation to marathon racing (which I agree is really not worth the button on the bar). Also, a dropper is amazing. Anyone who tells you otherwise is the guy who also ran contilever brakes till last year, swore that Lance is clean and still thinks the earth is flat. Honestly. Arguing a remote lever isn't worth the gains and then saying that the weight to advantage of a dropper isn't worth it needs to relook at what their priorities are. Dropper = the best addition to your bike since disc brakes.
Hennie VR Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Just buy the Brain shock and forks from Specialized.............Problem solved
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