Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Ok not sure where to start this topic as I cut and paste it from the Stellenbosc tour Event thread. It could be Safety, it could be event specific but I think it's an interesting subject with potential for a good bit of controversy. I want to gauge what the bikehub thinks of this. Was chatting to a pal of mine last night. He had a good race (Stellenbosch Tour) but started complaining about the MTB's in the fast bunches. Was saying they tend to make life very difficult due to the very wide handle bars some of the bikes are using ( I assume he was refering to 29ers since I can't imagine theres too many DH bikes in a road race).Anyway he was saying on a few occasions he got tagged by mtb bars and very nearly had a few accidents. He's pretty experienced on the bike having been riding for something like 30years. This got me thinking about my own ride and I recall more than a few near misses with mtb's and their wide bars. Also when they stand up to pedal they tend to slow down a lot more than a road bike. Riders tend to scatter which creates danger when a bunch is on a road without full road closure. I recall there was a period when MTB's had their own category. Not sure what others experiences are but perhaps this is something that needs to be looked at in terms of safety. 1. They are there because they are fast.2. Who cares how wide the bars are?3. Learn to ride in a bunch, use your elbows and body to make space for yourself.4. the same thing is evident in MTB races in the fast groups, you just learn to deal with it or fall. Not really an issue. I had a few incidents in MTB rces (OK I also went wise) but if you stay the course and have control they will either back off or fall. That will teach them. Problem solved. HTFU! edit typo Edited November 30, 2015 by Dick Pieterlab1 and Mopkop 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted November 30, 2015 Share But they not allowed in uci road races on grounds of safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Herein lies a rub. Yesterday I had a mtb squeeze past through a gap that wasn't there.The roadie on the shoulder became a cyclo crosser quick quick and I ended up riding into oncoming traffic.Just about got a sorry from the okeIf you were riding into oncoming traffic you were not obeying the white-line rule. If you get squeezed out you need to fall back. If you leave a gap for someone to squeeze into your bad, Go learn to ride in a road race bunch. Don't moan. Mopkop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share 1. They are there because they are fast.2. Who cares how wide the bars are?3. Learn to ride in a bunch, use your elbows and body to make space for yourself.4. the same thing is evident in MTB races in the fact groups, you just learn to deal with it or fall. Not really an issue. I had a few incidents in MTB rces (OK I also went wise) but if you stay the course and have control they will either back off or fall. That will teach them. Problem solved. HTFU! Ja, ummm, no. Lets not get inexperienced, unfamiliar riders leaning into each other in races ekse! Especially if some of them have never had anyone touch them while riding at pace and they are sporting wide MTB type bars... HTFU is for no motivation training days and pushing through pain thresholds on race day, not for engaging other bunch racers around you! Ride a bike? Be cool. Pikey and Patchelicious 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share If you were riding into oncoming traffic you were not obeying the white-line rule. If you get squeezed out you need to fall back. If you leave a gap for someone to squeeze into your bad, Go learn to ride in a road race bunch. Don't moan. Pull into oncoming lane or tangle bars and go down? Given these choices only which would you choose? Comes across as though you're ramping this debate up a bit Dick. Is that your intention? Patchelicious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brumby Posted November 30, 2015 Share Are flat bar road bikes excluded from this topic or are they now also mountain bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share Are flat bar road bikes excluded from this topic or are they now also mountain bikes. Depends how wide their bars are? Most often flat bar road bikes behave similar to road bikes in anticipated rolling dynamics and most bikes still have narrow bar setup regardless. Edited November 30, 2015 by Tubehunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share I would've said the following right there, rather than wait for an apology! "Dude, you're riding like a punk and it's dangerous around you in a tight group with the risks you are taking. Please hold your line and if you're trying to get on the back of a wheel when there's not enough space, ask for it, rather than attempt to make that space by simply pushing in. If you make someone go down, most often they do not go down on their own! If you want to ride in this bunch work with the bunch and not against it!"This is my pet peev. If I am in front of you, no matter what I am riding, It is my line that counts not yours. you have brakes use them. When last were you in a racing bunch and you got squeezed into the gutter? It is a fact of life. If you are behind me and are half wheeling me so be it, you need to sleep at home and not on the road. Anyone behind me that dares to shout hold your line will get an earful and if I am on the rivets may get switched, just because I can! brumby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share This is my pet peev. If I am in front of you, no matter what I am riding, It is my line that counts not yours. you have brakes use them. When last were you in a racing bunch and you got squeezed into the gutter? It is a fact of life. If you are behind me and are half wheeling me so be it, you need to sleep at home and not on the road. Anyone behind me that dares to shout hold your line will get an earful and if I am on the rivets may get switched, just because I can! Dude, if you switch a whole group of chaps, you better be ready for more than a polite request to ride properly holding your line. Bunch riding is all about trying to anticipate what is going on around you and be cohesive. We've already accepted the fact that the majority of racing events show up poor bunch riding skills, so there will be half wheelers amongst many groups. Clearly from your posts you intend racing for position 99 and you're prepared to take a batch of people down who should rather be home sleeping than looking to ride their best time for an event with a group of similar strength racers as enjoyably as they can! If getting all aggro is your idea of race face, that's your jollies. The majority of us pay money to ride these events because we enjoy the vibe of pushing ourselves to our limits and still try to make it a fun day out! Edited November 30, 2015 by Tubehunter raptor-22, shaper and BigDL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted November 30, 2015 Share If you had 3 things you could do to change group racing behaviour, what would they be and why? 1. Get guys to up the bunch riding skills2. Get guys to work in the bunch3. Get guys to stop saying hold your line, if it is an issue for you go to the front and pace and stop wheel sucking. OK not just guys, gals also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Dick sounds like a dick actually. Sounds a little too brave to have ever gone down in a bunch. Anyone who thinks they can "switch " without consequences is living in a fantasy world or got lucky at lotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZRider Posted November 30, 2015 Share Are flat bar road bikes excluded from this topic or are they now also mountain bikes. I ride this: I had a neck op and can't ride drops anymore. This bike is fast and agile enough but I have to be aware of my elbows when the bunch gets fast and tight. Its easy enough to fit in if you are aware.Like patchelicious said: just don't ride like a knob! raptor-22, EmptyB and brumby 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share 1. Get guys to up the bunch riding skillsAgreed. DC will hopefully keep inspiring amateur groups to keep training in bunches to develop this!2. Get guys to work in the bunchInevitable that there will be wheelsuckers. Different people have different strengths and will only pull when in that position out on the route. E.G. Big chap wont pace uphill, but try hang on and all the lightweights will try and hold his wheel if they're close to him as they hit the downhill and flat sections...3. Get guys to stop saying hold your line, if it is an issue for you go to the front and pace and stop wheel sucking.The term is used for everything these days, as there simply is no bunch riding skill whatsoever, and this being the first thing to consider when riding in a group, is therefor relative for most. OK not just guys, gals also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Share I ride this: IMG_0044.JPG I had a neck op and can't ride drops anymore. This bike is fast and agile enough but I have to be aware of my elbows when the bunch gets fast and tight. Its easy enough to fit in if you are aware.Like patchelicious said: just don't ride like a knob! That looks sweeet! Must be so lekka to roll on and still get the feeling of racing without having to sacrifice that because you can't get into drops anymore! (Have an old Trek 6500 US Postal I did the same thing to. Use it as my commuter now) EZRider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZRider Posted November 30, 2015 Share That looks sweeet! Must be so lekka to roll on and still get the feeling of racing without having to sacrifice that because you can't get into drops anymore! (Have an old Trek 6500 US Postal I did the same thing to. Use it as my commuter now)Also gives me an excuse not to work much in the front anymore! Tubehunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor-22 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Can't understand why the drops are unreachable. The stem and bars are so low on that flat bar set up that a higher bar with a shallow droo will deliver a similar set up. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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