Emperors Classic 2016 (road)

[CharlesZ]

They've used Google Earth which is not right, but then again which system is right?

 

Our recce gave just under 600m

the different devices all differ always but do think it will be less than last years race. the 600m do sound like about right

[CharlesZ]

So all just if your not happy with your seeding ASG do give you an opportunity to have the correct seeding and try also to make the ques go alot faster at the registration

 

 

Riders who have entered for the Emperors Palace Classic, presented by OR Tambo International Airport and TEAM VITALITY, please note that if you haven’t taken part in an ASG event, you can go onto the ASG Event site and can select an event from one of our predetermined external (non ASG) events, which took place within the last year, and add in your details and finishing time.

The system will automatically calculate your seeding based on the finishing time and nature of the event. 

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS SEEDING FOR THE ROAD RACE ONLY. SEEDING FOR THE MTB RACE WILL BE DONE ACCORDING TO THE SASEEDING SYSTEM.

If you are already ranked on the ASG Bestmed Seeding system, you can also add in your results from these non ASG Events if you have taken part in them and feel they will improve your seeding.

We have recently imported the Carnival City Macsteel Classic results into our seeding facility, so riders who took part in that prestigious event will have a seeding on our system and they have been added to existing seeding profiles.

If you have entered for the Emperors Palace Classic, and would like to add a recent result from a non ASG Event, click here to log into the seeding page on www.asgevents.co.za.

Seeding explained

Seeding is a crucial tool to assist race organisers place riders in the most appropriate starting batch of a race, thereby reducing (not eliminating) the chances of congestion (eg, faster riders getting stuck behind slower, or less technically able riders), and/or ensuring the riders are placed in a bunch of similar paced competitors (especially in a road event, where bunch-riding is quite critical).

A seeding “index” is calculated based on previous results of all competitors, and is an arbitrary value (usually, but not always, a percentage) designed to be comparable between other athletes that have been seeded using the same system.

How seeding is done

Using available results for events registered on the ASG System, a seeding index is calculated per person.

These events include:

1. ASG races that you’ve taken part in, which are automatically plugged into the system, or
2. External, pre-determined events, for which you can add your results on the ASG Events site.

A rider’s seeding index offers an indication of the person’s ability relative to other entrants of the same race in the event.

An index of “0” means you are of the same ability as the winner, while a “100” index means you have the same ability as the slowest rider in a race.
Everyone with an index between 0 and 100 is seeded into one of the seeded groups with riders of equal ability.

How the ASG seeding index compares to other seeding systems

There are a number of seeding “engines” in South Africa currently.

Most of the systems have an excellent history of results, and therefore are robust and produce consistent seeding indices.

However, although they are all aimed at producing a relative index per rider based on historical performance (and thus, by inference, current rider ability), they all apply different rules and algorithms.

For example, rules (or combinations thereof) are applied that weight results based on the following criteria: Age of the result; how long ago it took place – obviously the older it is, the less one can infer CURRENT ability.

Distance of the race; where a marathon counts a bit more when comparing relative performance to riders who did a half-marathon.

Difficulty/grading of the event; which is extremely complex and even subjective to quantify.

Number of riders competing; which is an often-debated topic.

Finishing time of the rider compared to the winning time of the race and the finishing time of other riders

The fact that different rules are applied, and approaches may differ, means that no two seeding indices will be the same.

An index of 10.5, say, in one system may well be very comparable to an index of 19.7 in another.

What is important is whether the relative seeding position of one rider versus another, using the SAME system, are comparable and consistent.

So, if one rider is “top 25%” in one system, they should ROUGHLY be “top 25%” using another system.

Comparing the actual indices makes no sense, and should be avoided. In fact, in some systems a low index is “good”, and a high index is “bad”, whereas in others the converse is true.

So, a difference in indices between systems is not necessarily “inconsistent”, so long as over time your relative position/seeding in the “bunch” (or amongst your fellow riders) remains the same over time using the same seeding system (but, again, this assumes your performance levels, and of those competing with you, remain pretty consistent over time, which is not always the case).

Furthermore, there is not a single place one can go to see all your seeding indices, or compare across seeding systems (until such time as a national seeding system is in place).

How to improve your seeding index

The more historic results you have for a rider, the more “robust” the seeding calculations become.

Similarly, not having any results for a rider unfortunately means one cannot seed them, until such time as you have built up some history of their performance.
ASG took the (difficult) decision to develop our own seeding engine, for a number of reasons including (but not limited to):

1. The rich set of results data we had for ASG events
2. The belief that we could apply more considered “rules” to the datasets, which should result in improved seeding
3. The costs associated with buying seeding information for each and every event (with such costs impacting on the entry fee for riders)
4. The ability for us to handle seeding queries and changes in a faster, more efficient manner

We have had a few teething problems (almost exclusively related to not having sufficient historical results, particularly on the road side, as we previously relied on our timing and seeding partners to store such results), but the “coverage” of our results has increased dramatically in recent months, enabling us to improve our seeding as each event takes place.

The new functionality whereby you can enter external results is another leap forward. Thus to improve your seeding index on the ASG system participate frequently – the more frequent, the better your seeding (the older your results the less it influences your seeding) and ensure that your race results are always up to date on the system.

In conclusion then, seeding is NOT an exact science, and no two systems will “agree” with one another.

However, by being diligent in the collection and storing of historical results data, and the application of simple but meaningful rules and weightings to the results, a system will be produced that allows organisers to batch riders appropriately, leading to a more rewarding and enjoyable experience for riders during a race.

We at ASG are certainly committed to continue investing in such a robust seeding system for our events.

[Vetplant]

Just checked my seeding for the race, 43.19, so somewhere in the middle of the pack I presume?

 

What seeding score are you guys sitting with?

[Veebee]

my index is sitting at 23.72 on ASG after adding R4S and CTCT results. seems too low for my ability[or compared to my PPA seeding] but as they said their system is not the same so maybe this is correct.

[shaper]

tried everything on the seeding look up (name, ID etc) and does not show anything for me and have done pretty much all the ASG events over the last few years let alone all the racetec timed events

[Sitting@89]

Hi there everyone, I am quite new at the whole racing thing so just a quick question; I have my seeding index (a very very modest 85.3) how do I go about actually getting a seeded start? So far l have just done late entries and started at the back of the last bunch out. It is however getting slightly frustrating having to pass everyone that is in it just to finish.

[Veebee]

Hi there everyone, I am quite new at the whole racing thing so just a quick question; I have my seeding index (a very very modest 85.3) how do I go about actually getting a seeded start? So far l have just done late entries and started at the back of the last bunch out. It is however getting slightly frustrating having to pass everyone that is in it just to finish.

 

just enter early and get seeded based on your index, problem solved.

[jcza]

Seeding seems very strange (not that we ever understand it) but have a look at the following:

 

2015 Emperors 50km race, Time 1:29, Index 13.48

2015 Emperors 102km race, Time 2:26, Index 18.53

[jcza]

tried everything on the seeding look up (name, ID etc) and does not show anything for me and have done pretty much all the ASG events over the last few years let alone all the racetec timed events

 

They have 2 x Carnival 2016 results for you 

[Vetplant]

tried everything on the seeding look up (name, ID etc) and does not show anything for me and have done pretty much all the ASG events over the last few years let alone all the racetec timed events

Did you do any ASG events within the last year? The system seems to only focus on the last 12 months of races, give or take a month. 

 

I haven't done any ASG events, but manually added my 947CC result and got my seeding.

[CharlesZ]

Hi there everyone, I am quite new at the whole racing thing so just a quick question; I have my seeding index (a very very modest 85.3) how do I go about actually getting a seeded start? So far l have just done late entries and started at the back of the last bunch out. It is however getting slightly frustrating having to pass everyone that is in it just to finish.

Just enter through the portal before entries close and then you will be seeded.

[CharlesZ]

Seeding seems very strange (not that we ever understand it) but have a look at the following:

 

2015 Emperors 50km race, Time 1:29, Index 13.48

2015 Emperors 102km race, Time 2:26, Index 18.53

I have no problems on mine. Lol mtb is scary bad

ID Number 810518 xxxx xx 8 MTB Seeding Index ROAD Seeding Index First name & Last name Charles Zeelie MTB Best Indexes 35.5 44.68

40.09

4.46

ROAD Best Indexes 2.78 4.71 5.89 Event Race Type Time        

[jcza]

 

I have no problems on mine. Lol mtb is scary bad

ID Number 810518 xxxx xx 8 MTB Seeding Index ROAD Seeding Index First name & Last name Charles Zeelie MTB Best Indexes 35.5 44.68

40.09

4.46

ROAD Best Indexes 2.78 4.71 5.89 Event Race Type Time        

 

 

Same here, will start in VC but I am intrigued. 

[shaper]

Did you do any ASG events within the last year? The system seems to only focus on the last 12 months of races, give or take a month. 

 

I haven't done any ASG events, but manually added my 947CC result and got my seeding.

Re read what I wrote... have done pretty much ALL ASG events, B&D, Satellite, Emperors... anyway, have emailed them... else will be a re-seed at collection

[Vetplant]

Re read what I wrote... have done pretty much ALL ASG events, B&D, Satellite, Emperors... anyway, have emailed them... else will be a re-seed at collection

Apologies if I offended.

 

"pretty much"..."last couple of years" could have been interpreted to mean that all races in 2013 and 2014 were done with only some races done in 2015 and 2016, was asking to clarify this. Hope you get sorted out.

 

On a different note, the seeding is based on the overall results of others in the pool. So my 43.19 will definitely change as the scores of others get moved about. For example, some who sat at 45.00 gets his scores corrected and moves to 40.00, thus leapfrogging me, so my score will deteriorate as a result...?

[2wieltjies]

If I have a seeding of 13.55, that should put me fairly in front, correct?