Don't try and order SRAM from overseas anymore...

[Eddy Gordo]

Really? Do people really buy stuff due to marketing tripe. I don't believe I've ever bought anything (cycling or otherwise) based on an advert/sponsorship/etc.. I'll buy based on research, aesthetic appeal, advice from friends with knowledge, etc.

Same here. I will do my research and compare product against product etc and then make a decision. Also I wont or at least try not buy anything endorsed by someone just so that the price can be inflated.

[Eddy Gordo]

blocked at whose behest? Can you honestly tell me the local guys didn't have a say in the embargo? They stand to benefit the most from this whole deal.

 

As for marketing options, there's the free version called word of mouth. It's never budgeted for, but it sure as hell pays off. IMO its very silly to say we the public need to spend more just to maintain their marketing budget. If they built great products, they will succeed because quality and satisfaction get ppl talking. More sales, more income. Of course advertising helps, but we all know there are many forms, not all of which places a financial burden on the distributor/retailer. The whole argument why the public MUST pay more smacks of protectioneering. Very lazy approach. Zero innovation.

I have to say my opinion is that local guys did have a say in it.

 

A few years ago I was looking to stock a certain product from a south african manufacturer. Another store 5km away asked them to not sell to us. Needless to say I was a bit upset as this store wanted all the selling rights in about a 20km radius according to the manufacturer. I left it like that. 

Then a week or 2 later one of our other suppliers shows us the same items available through them. Low and behold we have been selling these items with absolutely no effect onto the the other business. Hell we even send our customers to them as we do not stock the entire range. However we are selling it for cheaper as we get the same factory price and also benefit from any clearance specials.

[cdevil]

Screw Shimano and SRAM, this is the future:

 

 

600% range, 5 year warranty, and only requires an oil change every 10 000km, maintenance free!

 

[BigDL]

Some real anger apparent here. The costs of a local distribution network are obscene and the expectations of the brand owners are generally pretty high. When you purchase, you are generally expected to order significant quantity and often you will pre-pay, or pay when the stock is shipped. This can sometimes be months before you actually have the stock to sell.

 

You will also be expected, generally speaking, to have a certain amount of local advertising and marketing at your cost, often a fixed annual value.

 

Add to this the cost of servicing warranty issues and administering the business and you very quickly get to needing a 40% mark-up just to cover costs.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

blocked at whose behest? Can you honestly tell me the local guys didn't have a say in the embargo? They stand to benefit the most from this whole deal.

 

As for marketing options, there's the free version called word of mouth. It's never budgeted for, but it sure as hell pays off. IMO its very silly to say we the public need to spend more just to maintain their marketing budget. If they built great products, they will succeed because quality and satisfaction get ppl talking. More sales, more income. Of course advertising helps, but we all know there are many forms, not all of which places a financial burden on the distributor/retailer. The whole argument why the public MUST pay more smacks of protectioneering. Very lazy approach. Zero innovation.

 

Yeah, they probably all had a hand in it, tbh. Our guys, the guys in Oz, NZ, USA etc. And tbh I understand why. If you'd entered into an exclusivity agreement with the manufacturer, you'd want that exclusivity to apply to all avenues. 

 

Not saying I like the model, I'm personally for a free trade agreement style approach where we're free to buy from whomever we choose. But I understand why it is now like this. 

[NicoBoshoff]

Doesn't negate the cost thereof. 

Shouldn't be my problem.  Their primary job is to provide me with products at a price which is market-driven.  And then, when they can't do that locally because of their marketing choices (which offer me, the consumer F-all benefit), they basically cut off alternatives?  F them man.

 

I don't pay more for bread because the shopkeeper has an addict brother he's supporting on the side.

[Eddy Gordo]

I wanted to open a bicycle shop and just stock basics to start off with. (well the idea isnt dead) However the distributors I spoke to told me I have buy for something like R150 000 which was basically all the stock variety that they keep. I then asked cant I just buy the stuff I am interested in keeping and then order the items that I need. Well, it does not work like that. You have to order an initial stock amount and then you can top up. Unfortunately the location where I wanted to entertain my hobby didnt require all the stock the distributor wanted to offload on me.

One day I will look into it again as I am extremely certain the location I have in mind will be a good one.

 

The business I currently work for carries certain stock that sells regularly. However should someone require anything that we dont have, we can order and the suppliers dont have an issue in just sending one item.

 

This needs to be possible in the cycling industry

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Shouldn't be my problem.  Their primary job is to provide me with products at a price which is market-driven.  And then, when they can't do that locally because of their marketing choices (which offer me, the consumer F-all benefit), they basically cut off alternatives?  F them man.

 

I don't pay more for bread because the shopkeeper has an addict brother he's supporting on the side.

again - you're only one person. The marketing budget forms part of their overheads. The sales of their goods need to cover that and other operating expenses. 

 

If they choose to market in such a way, their end price will be dictated by that and many other factors, profit also being amongst them. 

 

So I presume that because you don't do the epic (for example) they shouldn't sponsor it or at least support those with SRAM products who do? Offer servicing facilities on the route? 

 

Their Epic sponsorship is the same as Specialized's Trails sponsorship. You still pay for it through purchasing bikes and kit. It's just a different outlet. 

[Iwan Kemp]

I don't pay more for bread because the shopkeeper has an addict brother he's supporting on the side.

 

Chances are you are. So too the fact that the guy at the top of the bread-chain drives a Bentley and lives in a 5bar house in an area we won't be allowed behind the gates. ALL of that, plus the monthly cost of Rentokil to keep the cockroaches and rats under control - build into your slice of bread.

 

Every time you drive passed a bus with a bread smacked on the side - you're paying for it. A soccer team running around kicking balls for a living wearing their kit? Yip, you're paying for it. The yearly business retreats, staff bonuses, etc ,etc, etc... You guessed it.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I wanted to open a bicycle shop and just stock basics to start off with. (well the idea isnt dead) However the distributors I spoke to told me I have buy for something like R150 000 which was basically all the stock variety that they keep. I then asked cant I just buy the stuff I am interested in keeping and then order the items that I need. Well, it does not work like that. You have to order an initial stock amount and then you can top up. Unfortunately the location where I wanted to entertain my hobby didnt require all the stock the distributor wanted to offload on me.

One day I will look into it again as I am extremely certain the location I have in mind will be a good one.

 

The business I currently work for carries certain stock that sells regularly. However should someone require anything that we dont have, we can order and the suppliers dont have an issue in just sending one item.

 

This needs to be possible in the cycling industry

One of the reasons that Stoke doesn't carry Shimano items. Mahooosive initial order requirement just to get on their list of stockists. They can't order anything from them until that happens, so they just don't carry Shimano. 

 

CCS doesn't have that requirement. 

 

EDIT: Just been told that CCS have a min order of R 50k. 

[Eddy Gordo]

One of the reasons that Stoke doesn't carry Shimano items. Mahooosive initial order requirement just to get on their list of stockists. They can't order anything from them until that happens, so they just don't carry Shimano. 

 

CCS doesn't have that requirement. 

Exactly. There in lies the problem and it is not just shimano, there are some other brands as well ( I am choosing not mention names as I would most likely point out the distributor and dont want them to be at fault) which I can understand. However to me it is like if you are not a big shop like CWC then go away. Small shops will always struggle to stock certain goods. You know how much business a shop can do if they are able to order one or 2 specialised items for clients and that without putting out massive overheads. It becomes a pay on order principal eliminating accounts.

[BigDL]

Exactly. There in lies the problem and it is not just shimano, there are some other brands as well ( I am choosing not mention names as I would most likely point out the distributor and dont want them to be at fault) which I can understand. However to me it is like if you are not a big shop like CWC then go away. Small shops will always struggle to stock certain goods. You know how much business a shop can do if they are able to order one or 2 specialised items for clients and that without putting out massive overheads. It becomes a pay on order principal eliminating accounts.

The challenge is that every dude wants to start an online business now, so you supply small amounts of stock initially and the guy sells heavily discounted as he either has no concept of turnover v profit or he wants to grow his business. So many times back in the day would we see small guys start selling at ridiculous prices with no concept of their or the brands future.

 

By enforcing minimum initial orders, you can go some way to protecting all of your other customers. Once you have placed that initial order, most distributors will happily supply you with one offs where needed.

 

 

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[NicoBoshoff]

Chances are you are. So too the fact that the guy at the top of the bread-chain drives a Bentley and lives in a 5bar house in an area we won't be allowed behind the gates. ALL of that, plus the monthly cost of Rentokil to keep the cockroaches and rats under control - build into your slice of bread.

 

Every time you drive passed a bus with a bread smacked on the side - you're paying for it. A soccer team running around kicking balls for a living wearing their kit? Yip, you're paying for it. The yearly business retreats, staff bonuses, etc ,etc, etc... You guessed it.

Iwan. So why does Shimano manage without resorting to anti-competitive behaviour?

 

Stop ignoring that fundamental question.

 

I'm really not that daft.  I know how marketing works.  I know it's part of their overheads (said so right in my first post), but the argument keeps getting made that SRAM does sooooooo much for this race and that team.  I'm saying, either that's marketing, or it's BS that I don't care about.

 

Market all you want.  If you eventually price yourself out of the market, then consumers will let you know.  By going to online retailers or competitors.  But, oh wait, you've cut that avenue off.

 

Which brings me to the question - How come Shimano isn't acting like a bunch of giant sh*tlords?

[BigDL]

Iwan. So why does Shimano manage without resorting to anti-competitive behaviour?

 

Stop ignoring that fundamental question.

 

I'm really not that daft. I know how marketing works. I know it's part of their overheads (said so right in my first post), but the argument keeps getting made that SRAM does sooooooo much for this race and that team. I'm saying, either that's marketing, or it's BS that I don't care about.

 

Market all you want. If you eventually price yourself out of the market, then consumers will let you know. By going to online retailers or competitors. But, oh wait, you've cut that avenue off.

 

Which brings me to the question - How come Shimano isn't acting like a bunch of giant sh*tlords?

I am sure that Shimano would if they could and would be surprised if they aren't trying to.

 

 

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[NicoBoshoff]

You can't have your cake and eat it.  Either it's purely marketing, which will, in budget forecasting terms,be dictated to by where the consumers migrate at various price points. Or it's some marketing and then frivolous BS which doesn't actually benefit the consumer.

 

In a fair market the consumer would give the brand a spanking for making their goods too expensive having spent too much money on niceties.  

 

And therein lies the rub.  SRAM isn't playing fair, and you know it.

[NicoBoshoff]

I am sure that Shimano would if they could and would be surprised if they aren't trying to.

 

 

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Speculative at best.