Banana B Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 That's horrible. There's nothing wrong with the 'weekend warrior' dawdling in the middle of the road, it's for the organizers and marshalls to manage the situation & clear slow finishers to the sides.Yes, I agree. Can't be blamed if you get smashed from behind he/she did nothing wrong its a race. Sprinter wasn't looking ahead. Simple. The end.
Bateleur1 Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 Yes, I agree. Can't be blamed if you get smashed from behind he/she did nothing wrong its a race. Sprinter wasn't looking ahead. Simple. The end. If my previous statement came out wrong ... for the record, I do not blame the weekend warrior (although it is always a good idea to stick to the side of the ride, even in road closure). I do blame the organisers for arranging an event where the pros come sprinting for the finish that has weekend warriors using the same finish line. It is common practice and remains an unsafe situation that should be avoided.
Tubehunter Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 Yes, I agree. Can't be blamed if you get smashed from behind he/she did nothing wrong its a race. Sprinter wasn't looking ahead. Simple. The end. Huh, he did nothing wrong? Doesn't sound like you have ever been at the front of a sprint bunch coming to a line with that kind of comment! Yep, you are welcome to ride wherever you like during a race. However, from a practical racing perspective it only has the potential to end up the way it has. It's just not a clever thing to do. When you are racing in the middle of a group, do you look at what's going on in the front of the group or are you paying attention and focussing on the wheel in front of you, possibly a bike or two ahead of that using your peripheral vision? When a group going at speed comes onto a much slower rider it's not a question of will the slower rider be ridden into, it's more a guess as to how many get by before the final bump happens that takes down a whole group behind that! Add a sprint finish to this equation where everyone in the sprint pack is bleeding from their eye balls to hang on chasing a wheel making a train and it ends up this kind of ugly. Redo this scenario and the result will be the same every time. Easy option. If you're sitting up and cruising to the line, don't ride in the middle of the road, ESPECIALLY when the commentator is blaring on about the ladies pros coming to the line!
s14phoenix Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Yes but on the other hand... If the guy sitting up is also spent maybe he did not even hear what the commentator was saying. I know typically it sounds all muffled and make no sense in the approach to the line - especially further out. I can tell you that out of a 100 cyclists at any given time in a race maybe 10 know what is happening behind them in a race. Most seem to ride with blinkers on with total disregard for what is happening to their left and right or behind. 1. Yes the lone rider could have moved to the left or right but we all know that doesn't happen. 2. The sprinters could have looked up and tried anticipating what the rider would be doing etc. (especially since there is always issue it seems in the ladies races with traffic, other riders, groups interfering etc.) 3. The organisers could have ensured that a vehicle is out in front of the ladies coming in from 1km out already if not the whole race to ensure slower or dropped riders know what is coming up behind and can safely stay out the way. If there can be a vehicle or vehicles riding with Elite men then there can be one with the elite ladies also. The problem I think remains that the licenced categories needs all equal treatment by the organisers and having 10 vehicles around the Elite men and none around the other groups is ridiculous - everyone deserves the same amount safety provided by the event. The alphabet soup is a bit more tricky to fix but similar rules for the first couple of groups will be nice but probably cost the event a lot more. Each racing category at least NEEDS: 1. lead-out vehicle ensuring that the road ahead is cleared of possible dangers etc. 2. a motorbike marshall that can control the group not crossing the center line and a "beep-beep" when vehicles are approaching from behind typically. (PROPS again to the AL motorbike marshall @ R4S) that's all I can think of for now but you get the idea. A simple set of rules using resources probably already available at the events. Guidelines as to how the groups and events should be run. It just seems that there is not much regulation between the group starts and the finish line and that the riders need to control the conduct on the road completely alone for the most part. Correct me if I am wrong but surely all of this is the responsibility of CSA as they are the body controlling the sport in this country. If they do however have this set out in a set of event regulations then why are the events allowed to neglect the regulations? I am not flaming anyone and obviously cycling numbers have escalated recently but there is something that needs to be done about these incidents and "accidents" to prevent them instead of us sitting here complaining about it. I am sure the incident is being investigated by the authorities but I think stricter regulation and control is needed along with the larger number of entries taken.
Tubehunter Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 The issue that may be getting distorted here, is that it is not one specific fault that's at play here. This is a convergence of poorly managed situations that lead to this. The sad thing is that they are avoidable. We can all agree that the primary role here is of the Organiser to put something in place to manage the run in to the finish for the ladies, as this is the group that has the most issues with finish line crashes. You'll see there are vehicles and bikes behind the group, but not one of the marshals has moved ahead of the group to manage what is happening at the front. It's impossible to have the ladies finish without anyone else ahead of them on the course, so this aspect of the finish has to managed properly!
So Is Es Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 If you look closely at 8 sec the slower rider looks over his shoulder on the left and sees the bunch and then tries to move over to the left.
Robbie Stewart Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 My 2 cents as I don't ride road, only MTB.From what I see in this clip is that yes, the dude is dawdling along on the "racing line", but it seems like the oke is barely hanging on after the race, and therefor is not completely aware of all that's going on around him.Personally, I would not lay the blame on his shoulders though. It looks to me more of a case of the lady/ladies in the sprint rode straight into him, thus should they not look where they are going? What does the bunch do in a sprint usually? Who is responsible for people crashing into each other, and who checks for obstacles, either as part of the sprint or in addition to the bunch?Please don't start lambasting me, as I am purely a curios MTB'er and do not know all the "politics" of what goes on in the sprint pack. All I take from this is that next time I do a fun-ride on the tar, a-la Cape Town Cycle Tour, I will check to see if the stragglers behind me racing to make the cutoff time are about to knock me into oblivion...
'Dale Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 My 2 cents as I don't ride road, only MTB. From what I see in this clip is that yes, the dude is dawdling along on the "racing line", but it seems like the oke is barely hanging on after the race, and therefor is not completely aware of all that's going on around him. Personally, I would not lay the blame on his shoulders though. It looks to me more of a case of the lady/ladies in the sprint rode straight into him, thus should they not look where they are going? What does the bunch do in a sprint usually? Who is responsible for people crashing into each other, and who checks for obstacles, either as part of the sprint or in addition to the bunch? Please don't start lambasting me, as I am purely a curios MTB'er and do not know all the "politics" of what goes on in the sprint pack. All I take from this is that next time I do a fun-ride on the tar, a-la Cape Town Cycle Tour, I will check to see if the stragglers behind me racing to make the cutoff time are about to knock me into oblivion...Your questions does reflect no experience on tarmac with bleeding eye-balls and lactic acid all over your aura within sight of the white chalk ???? No harm done. The race organizers are responsible for creating safe conditions for racing where riders are diligently aware of each other's racing lines almost exclusively and not obstacles in the road (that's MTB)
Robbie Stewart Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Your questions does reflect no experience on tarmac with bleeding eye-balls and lactic acid all over your aura within sight of the white chalk No harm done. The race organizers are responsible for creating safe conditions for racing where riders are diligently aware of each other's racing lines and not obstacles in the road (that's MTB) Thanks 'Dale, I can however attest to bleeding eyeballs and lactic acid all over my aura, seeing as I have pedalled up the Contermanskloof mast climb a few times, and that is enough to make grown men cry...
L46 Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Huh, he did nothing wrong? Doesn't sound like you have ever been at the front of a sprint bunch coming to a line with that kind of comment! Yep, you are welcome to ride wherever you like during a race. However, from a practical racing perspective it only has the potential to end up the way it has. It's just not a clever thing to do. When you are racing in the middle of a group, do you look at what's going on in the front of the group or are you paying attention and focussing on the wheel in front of you, possibly a bike or two ahead of that using your peripheral vision? When a group going at speed comes onto a much slower rider it's not a question of will the slower rider be ridden into, it's more a guess as to how many get by before the final bump happens that takes down a whole group behind that! Add a sprint finish to this equation where everyone in the sprint pack is bleeding from their eye balls to hang on chasing a wheel making a train and it ends up this kind of ugly. Redo this scenario and the result will be the same every time. Easy option. If you're sitting up and cruising to the line, don't ride in the middle of the road, ESPECIALLY when the commentator is blaring on about the ladies pros coming to the line! Following your entire explanation regarding bunch riding etc. it is really irrelevant. I still believe the lone rider was not at fault as he did not know they were coming up from behind. The organisers/CSA officials should take the necesarry steps to try and avoid this scenario at the finish as they get paid to provide a safe racing environment. The ladies were also somewhat to blame for sqeezing past the lone rider when there were ample space around him. Regarding the anouncer/commentator, I've never in my life heard a word of what any anouncer was saying approaching the finish line. Just my 2C
'Dale Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Thanks 'Dale, I can however attest to bleeding eyeballs and lactic acid all over my aura, seeing as I have pedalled up the Contermanskloof mast climb a few times, and that is enough to make grown men cry... Yeah I think I have a top 10 up thereYou're referring to the cement path side? Yeah, that is a wall ????
s14phoenix Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 My 2 cents as I don't ride road, only MTB. From what I see in this clip is that yes, the dude is dawdling along on the "racing line", but it seems like the oke is barely hanging on after the race, and therefor is not completely aware of all that's going on around him. Personally, I would not lay the blame on his shoulders though. It looks to me more of a case of the lady/ladies in the sprint rode straight into him, thus should they not look where they are going? What does the bunch do in a sprint usually? Who is responsible for people crashing into each other, and who checks for obstacles, either as part of the sprint or in addition to the bunch? Please don't start lambasting me, as I am purely a curios MTB'er and do not know all the "politics" of what goes on in the sprint pack. All I take from this is that next time I do a fun-ride on the tar, a-la Cape Town Cycle Tour, I will check to see if the stragglers behind me racing to make the cutoff time are about to knock me into oblivion... Got to appreciate your sense of humour - definitely a different kind of sprint and one often forgotten.
JA-Q001 Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Yes but on the other hand... If the guy sitting up is also spent maybe he did not even hear what the commentator was saying. I know typically it sounds all muffled and make no sense in the approach to the line - especially further out. I can tell you that out of a 100 cyclists at any given time in a race maybe 10 know what is happening behind them in a race. Most seem to ride with blinkers on with total disregard for what is happening to their left and right or behind. 1. Yes the lone rider could have moved to the left or right but we all know that doesn't happen. 2. The sprinters could have looked up and tried anticipating what the rider would be doing etc. (especially since there is always issue it seems in the ladies races with traffic, other riders, groups interfering etc.) 3. The organisers could have ensured that a vehicle is out in front of the ladies coming in from 1km out already if not the whole race to ensure slower or dropped riders know what is coming up behind and can safely stay out the way. If there can be a vehicle or vehicles riding with Elite men then there can be one with the elite ladies also. The problem I think remains that the licenced categories needs all equal treatment by the organisers and having 10 vehicles around the Elite men and none around the other groups is ridiculous - everyone deserves the same amount safety provided by the event. The alphabet soup is a bit more tricky to fix but similar rules for the first couple of groups will be nice but probably cost the event a lot more. Each racing category at least NEEDS: 1. lead-out vehicle ensuring that the road ahead is cleared of possible dangers etc. 2. a motorbike marshall that can control the group not crossing the center line and a "beep-beep" when vehicles are approaching from behind typically. (PROPS again to the AL motorbike marshall @ R4S) that's all I can think of for now but you get the idea. A simple set of rules using resources probably already available at the events. Guidelines as to how the groups and events should be run. It just seems that there is not much regulation between the group starts and the finish line and that the riders need to control the conduct on the road completely alone for the most part. Correct me if I am wrong but surely all of this is the responsibility of CSA as they are the body controlling the sport in this country. If they do however have this set out in a set of event regulations then why are the events allowed to neglect the regulations? I am not flaming anyone and obviously cycling numbers have escalated recently but there is something that needs to be done about these incidents and "accidents" to prevent them instead of us sitting here complaining about it. I am sure the incident is being investigated by the authorities but I think stricter regulation and control is needed along with the larger number of entries taken.I can promise you they had all the same vehicles and marshals for all racing groups, thats a UCI and CSA requirement. UCI also does not allow any vehicles into the last kilometer, especially if the road is totally closed for racing, so no com, no bike marshall, nothing. If you want one of the reasons why (except for putting a one ton piece of metal into that bottleneck) go and see what happened in the 2010 amashova finish of the elites. So ja, no vehicles to do road clearing in last kilometer. Point 1. Race organisers should do the start time planning better. Point 2. If you notice your bunch is passing slower riders towards the finish, THINK and anticipate.
bradwentzel Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 I think most of you are missing that there were two sprints in the vid. One for the ladies win, and one for the VC win. That oke didn't stand a chance. Similar thing happened with VA/ladies at argus a few years back
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